Horror Movie Podcast Ep. 042: Friday the 13th (1980) — Part 1 of 5

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Happy Friday the 13th from your pals on HORROR MOVIE PODCAST, where we’re dead serious about horror movies… As promised, we are bringing you a five-part series for our FRIDAY THE 13th FRANCHISE REVIEW. Just like we did for the Halloween films back in October 2014, we’re giving you in-depth analysis of each movie, starting with an epically long, two-part discussion of the primary film, Sean S. Cunningham’s Friday the 13th (1980). And about two-thirds into our review, we welcome special guest BillChete from Horror On The Go.

Horror Movie Podcast is a bi-weekly show that’s released every other Friday. If you’d like to support our show, please subscribe to our podcast free in iTunes, and leave us a review! And remember, we love getting your voice mails, so call in with more recommendations and comments at this number: (801) 382-8789 Thanks for listening to Horror Movie Podcast!


SHOW NOTES:

I. Introduction


II. Indulgent Reflections and Nostalgia
— Reviewing this franchise on horror podcasts
— Naming a Monster: “Josh” vs. “Jason”
— Formerly “Jason X”
— 4th grade horror fan: Jason Voorhees
— Prize give-aways for these episodes

For this show:
Prize – DVD 4-pack of first 4 films

Leave a comment in the show notes or e-mail us at HorrorMoviePodcast@gmail.com
1. Indicate which city you’re writing from
2. List your Top 3 favorite Friday the 13th films in order

— Where these films are streaming now
— SPOILER WARNING for the Friday the 13th franchise
— We review each film separately


[ 0:12:49 ] III. Origins of the Friday the 13th Superstition


[ 0:23:06 ] IV. Feature Review: FRIDAY THE 13th (1980)
Jay of the Dead = 8.5 ( Buy it! )
Wolfman Josh = 7.5 ( Buy it! )
Dr. Shock = 9.5 ( Buy it! )
BillChete = 10 ( Buy it! )

[ 1:30:39 ] Round 2 of our Friday the 13th (1980) review:
— Special guest BillChete


V. Wrap-Up / Plugs / Ending


JOIN US NEXT FRIDAY ON HMP: Episode 043: Friday the 13th Part 2 (1981) and Friday the 13th Part III (1982) and Friday the 13th: The Final Chapter (1984) on Friday, February 20th.


LINKS FOR THIS EPISODE:

BillChete’s links:
Horror On The Go.com
Android App for Horror On The Go
On Twitter: @BillChete
On Facebook
On Tumblr
On Google+
BillChete’s Top 10 Horror Lists archive

Wolfman Josh and Jay of the Dead review Silent House on Movie Stream Cast

Jay of the Dead is on the road for Horror Movie Podcast Episode 040: The I-80 Tapes

Wolfman Josh’s links:
Wolfman Josh on Twitter: @IcarusArts
Wolfman Josh covers new releases in theaters on: Movie Podcast Weekly
Wolfman covers movies streaming online on: Movie Stream Cast

Dr. Shock’s links:
Dr. Shock’s daily movie review Web site: DVD Infatuation.com
Dr. Shock on Twitter: @DVDinfatuation
Dr. Shock’s other horror podcast: Land of the Creeps

Jay of the Dead’s links:
Jay of the Dead and Horror Movie Podcast Official Twitter: @HorrorMovieCast
Jay of the Dead covers new releases in theaters on: Movie Podcast Weekly
And if you’d like to e-mail Jay of the Dead with a good Beastly Freaks recommendation: BeastlyFreaks@gmail.com

Dr. Walking Dead’s links:
Dr. Walking Dead on Twitter: @DrWalkingDead
Dr. Walking Dead’s books American Zombie Gothic and Triumph of The Walking Dead

You can always contact us by e-mailing HorrorMoviePodcast@gmail.com. Or you can call and leave us a voice mail at: (801) 382-8789. And you can leave us a comment in the show notes for this episode.

Special thanks goes out to singer-songwriter Frederick Ingram for the use of his music for Horror Movie Podcast.

If you like Horror Movie Podcast, please subscribe and leave us a review in iTunes. If you want to support the show, we have PayPal buttons on our sister site, Movie Podcast Weekly.com, in the right-hand sidebar where you can make a one-time donation or you can become a recurring donor for just $2 per month. (Every little bit helps!)

NOTE FOR NEWCOMERS: If you love this podcast, there are 36 episodes of two other great podcasts that precede this one. Just scroll back through our archives, or use the links in the sidebar on the right.

Thanks for listening, and join us again Friday after next for HORROR MOVIE PODCAST!


surveys & polls

 

110 thoughts on “Horror Movie Podcast Ep. 042: Friday the 13th (1980) — Part 1 of 5

  1. Hey guys I am writing from the frozen tundra that is Minneapolis, Minnesota!

    My favorite series of horror in “The Big Three” (nightmare on elm street, halloween, and Friday the 13th) is far and away Friday the 13th. I dig the outdoors. Okay, with that said, my top three:
    1- F13 part 2, potato sack Jason creeps me out. Plus it has the most depressing kill: mark, not only in a wheelchair…but he’s about to get laid…gets a hatchet in the face and then flies backwards down two flights of steps. Also Ginny, is my favorite final girl as she is smart as hell and compassionate given her brilliant thoughts on who Jason is when they’re at the bar.
    2- F13 part 4 The Final Chapter. It’s says you’re a dead fuck. The computer doesn’t lie. This part is a no brainer.
    3- last but not least (and everyone will hate me for this), F13 part 8 Jason Takes Manhattan. Okay okay it’s one of the absolute worst. But damn if it isn’t entertaining as all get out. The guitar kill, the hot coal kill, the punched off head kill! Come on! Oh and let’s not forget how Manhattan tends to blast toxic waste through the sewers from time to time! Needless to say, this movie doesn’t take itself too seriously and is seriously cheesy but I love it. You can’t beat Jason walking around in Times Square (even though it takes most of the movie to get there!)

    Anyway thanks for your time, as always I look forward to the next episode!

  2. …Great job guys. This was well worth the wait! Once again I am impressed at the dissection of the fetal stages of the greatest horror franchise we’ve seen. I continue to feel more enlightened an educated in general after listening to you guys converse. You all continue to blow my mind; Josh was in top form in this episode! And where else but on HMP can I get quotes by Brigham Young of all people in the same discussion as Crazy Ralph from Friday the 13th?!
    My thoughts on the original movie – I agree with you guys when you say this can stand alone as its own movie and it could have ended there. I also agree totally with Josh in saying that i felt the summer camp imagery and late 70’s early 80’s vibe of this movie make it very special. The grainy low-budget aesthetic is what low-budget horror is all about. Music and lighting were some of the best in the series in the original Friday the 13th. This makes it very re-watchable even when you know the outcome, reveal, etc.
    One thing I disagree with or at least seem to actually like about this movie is the “double” shocking opening kill (The flashback, followed by Annie’s death). Josh noted that it was “redundant,” but I saw this as very effective. It took that “Psycho” Janet Leigh idea about the misleading protagonist, and put another slice of bacon on top. We’re shocked at the opening kill scene, then EVEN MORE shocked that Annie bites it so quickly! My thought process at that point is “Wow I really need to be ready for ANYTHING here.” So it was upping the ante, so to say, on that already used formula. When Steve Christie gets killed, I had the same reaction; he’s the pseudo love interest and he is picked off easily without a fight. Same thing with the ending sequence of Jason jumping out of the lake. Yes, it was clearly a “Carrie” rip-off, but the little follow up afterwards and then subsequent “Was it real? Was it a dream?” ambiguity took it just another step forward.
    I agreed with a lot of what Billchete had to say; these movies were about having fun. I personally do not love the “whodunnit” mystery element that you guys were discussing. It seemed irrelevant to me, and I think most movie-goers of “Friday the 13th” probably weren’t that consumed with figuring out who was the killer…Maybe I’m way off, but I don’t need to know or figure out why the kills happen; I just love the thrills, kills, and look/feel of these movies. The red herring characters and changing POV shots were always just part of making this movie eerie. I do though think parts 2-4 are better with Jason then taking revenge on his mother’s killer after she took her revenge. It was neat how they continued the story that way, and didn’t just throw in more unexplained characters that could have ended up being connected to this whole Jason thing.
    My only other criticism of part 1, and the reason why it’s kind of in the middle of the pack in comparison to the other F13 movies is that there were those two off-screen kills that severely disappointed me. The characters Ned and Bill were so realistic and so likeable, but then so unceremoniously cast aside as the kills started to happen. I liked to see the stalking, the struggle, and the heartbreak when characters are killed in these movies. (It happened again in parts of 2, 4, and 5). Plus, Savini’s work which was so awesome, was just wasted here, as we were denied two more great horror moments. Steve Christie’s death should have been a little more suspenseful also as he was so key in the story happening. I think there should have been more Steve-on-the run type scenes. These are minor gripes; I definitely love this movie. Can’t wait for next week as parts 2-3-4 are the essence of the series to me. Hopefully you guys don’t take any shortcuts here. Give this clip of the franchise its due respect. Parts 2-4 contain lots to discuss…Spend lots of time if you can; feel free to make the Jason Goes to Hell –> present movies like 40 minute shows. I think most of the listeners would agree with me!

    • I can understand why you like the double red haring. In many ways, it’s double the flavor, double the fun. Or, as you say, another slice of bacon. What it does effectively is that it makes for a really intense environment where we think anyone could die at any minute. That’s fun.

      But, it also causes some major narrative problems. I stand by my point that it is redundant. And my problem with that is that the movie doesn’t take the time to do a lot of other important things like develop the many side characters or manage the whodunnit element because so much time was sucked up on these false starts–about 20 minutes of a 90 minute movie.

      HALLOWEEN manages to give us our “prior evil” cold-open kill scene and jump right into the modern narrative without a hitch. PSYCHO manages to spend about 45 with Janet Leigh and develop our killer about as well as any horror movie ever and still retain the mystery and surprise at the end. F13th cheats to retain that mystery and surprise and we’re robbed of getting to know, even better, one of the great horror movie killers. I think Jay cut out my comparisons to MURDER ON THE ORIENT EXPRESS and DEATH ON THE NILE, but it is definitely possible to hide a killer with strong motivations without cheating.

      And you can claim that filmgoers weren’t interested in the whodunnit part of the story, but the filmmakers certainly were. The entire story structure and shooting style is designed to hide who the killer is and keep you guessing. Plus, this body count idea is borrowed from classic mysteries like the Giallo novels and films and Agatha Christie’s books and plays (particularly “10 Little Indians”).

      I absolutely agree with you and BillChete that these movies were about fun, but I don’t think that necessarily excuses sloppy filmmaking. You can have both. Good characters and a good mystery add a lot to both the deaths of the victims and the reveal of the killer.

      I also agree with you that I love the thrills, kills, look and feel of these movies. Those are really the main selling points. The setting is huge for me too and I was shocked that Jay is turned off by them feeling “dated.” That’s one of the things that makes them so wonderful. They transport you to a place and time.

      Agree with everything else you said and we’ll do our best to give all of the films the best coverage possible. The tricky thing is, we usually have two weeks between episodes to really pack it in and Jay and Doc are more busy right now than ever before, so it’s a bit of a struggle, but we’re going to give it our best effort.

      • I agree on just about everything you say Josh except I’m not so sure Cunningham knew or cared he was filming a mystery, but the script definitely sets itself up as an Agatha Christie type whodunit.

        I think while Friday the 13th is fun it’s main downfall is Cunningham’s direction; other than maybe Jason X, it’s the worst looking film in the franchise and a lot of that has to fall on Cunningham’s side. Just one film later you can see what a much more talented filmmaker (Steve Miner) can do with essentially the same material. Although Part 2 stupidly plays like it might be a mystery for a minute.

        On a completely separate note, Death on the Nile is an insanely under appreciated film as is Evil Under the Sun. As much as I enjoy David Suchet’s take on Poirot, I think Ustinov will always be my fave. In fact I prefer Death and Evil over Orient Express simply because I think Finney was miscast. Mind you, Orient Express still works.

        Can’t wait to hear all of your takes on the rest of the series. Maybe not my favorite horror franchise (I lean toward Halloween and Scream), but possibly the most entertaining from top to bottom.

        And I’m writing from Murfreesboro, TN (about 20 miles South of Nashville) and my top three in the franchise are:

        1)Part 2
        2) Part 6
        3) Part 7 (mainly because of the last 20 minutes, but that puts it slightly above 1 and 4 for me)

  3. Still listening to this, but I just want to say that I’m loving the battle between Jay and Josh, which so far has been pretty civil and both of them are making great points. Also, it’s so awesome that you guys were able to time this series so that they begin and end on an a Friday the 13th! NAILED IT TO INFINITY AND BEYOND!

  4. Hey guys, this has been a real treat! Please throw my name in the hat – I am in Portland, Oregon. I, like so many others, claim this as the series of movies that turned me in to a horror fan. I am not generally a fan of franchises, but I grew up with the Friday the 13th films and I love them for making 80’s horror fun. I was a summer camp kid and grew up playing out in the woods, so Camp Crystal Lake grabbed me and drew me in.

    Here are my top three movies of the series which I would rank fairly equally:

    1. Friday the 13th part 1: I love Betsy Palmer as Mrs. Voorhees, I love Crazy Ralph, and we get to see Kevin Bacon die in a memorable way! The music is great even if it does imitate other movie scores (at least it isn’t as blatant of a rip off as the theme from 1980’s He Knows You’re Alone, for which John Carpenter probably should have sued). For me this movie will always be a fun romp through slasher nostalgia.

    2. Friday the 13th part 2: Even though Jason looks like the killer from The Town that Dreaded Sundown, I find the sack over his head creepier than the iconic hockey mask. I really liked that Mrs. Voorhees’ severed head plays a prominent role throughout the movie and I love the scene where it is discovered in the refrigerator. A nice play on the preserved mother from the movie Psycho. The kills borrow heavily from Mario Bava’s Bay of Blood (aka Twitch of the Death Nerve), and while you could certainly fault this movie for all the “borrowing” I think it comes off as more of a fun collage of ideas from previous horror films.

    3. Friday the 13th part 4: The series could have ended quite nicely here (In my opinion) as it declines more and more as it goes on. I really enjoyed the cast in this one, especially Crispin Glover, and we get to see Jason rampage against anyone who enters his woods. Jason’s death scene is quite memorable and Corey Feldman with his shaved head is pretty damn creepy.

    These movies, while flawed, I think serve the purpose they were created for. They entertain, and sometimes give a good scare. For me, they are the cinematic equivalent of a favorite carnival ride that you buy a ticket for each summer. Thanks for taking the time to cover them in such detail.

  5. I’ve been listening for a long time, but I have to admit that its my wife that got me into the show. I had to comment on this, because Jason is my favorite of the big three. I love an over the top unstoppable force, but I also love campers in peril. luckily for me Jason fill both roles, with gusto. Plot holes? Works for me. Some how crosses miles in minutes? As far as I care he could fly when no ones watching. I really don’t need an explanation for anything in these movies. I know what I’m getting into when I put one on and thats pure slasher goodness.

    As far as favorites I have to go with “Part 2” as my third. It has teens in the woods having sex, and Jason in the woods killing teens. The feel of it classic slasher, nothing to out of this world, but already jason is proving to be unstoppable.

    The original comes in as my runner up. Its a great slasher and the suspense in it still leaves me trying to remember how each kill happens, and what order. It would be number one if they took the franchise in a different direction, but to me Friday the 13th needs Jason like breakfast needs bacon.

    For me “Jason Lives” has it all. Up until this point Jason was unstoppable but any tweaker smoking bath salts, can keep it going through a lot of mayhem. This is the turning point for Jason who “I don’t care what anyone says” was DEAD. Back from the grave He is now a force of nature, hell on Earth if you will. But he is still killing those damn kids that just won’t stop screwing in his woods.

    Drew Clark
    Portland, Oregon.

  6. The Friday the 13th series is the most enjoyable trash. I love it deep down to the bottom of my heart.

    And Josh, did you say Jason X is a terrible movie?

    No, it’s not. It’s hilarious.

    • @Levi TROLL 2 is hilarious too, but it’s also a terrible movie. Mostly, I was just surprised that Jay would choose such a low grade film to represent himself, when DAY OF THE DEAD (one of his favorite zombie movies) was the other option, and I was referring to that.

      • This is a bit off topic but I actually find it kind of hard to call something like “Troll 2” a terrible movie. If we derive that much joy from something, even if it’s not in the way the creators intended then is it really fair to call it “terrible”? Honestly i don’t know.

        This is another of those things that I’m pretty conflicted about but I think if we take the “death of the author” approach and view a piece of art as an entity totally separate from its creators intentions, instead letting our individual interpretations qualify it, then something like “Troll 2” is a pretty great movie. A sort of incidental stroke of brilliance from the ether. Hell if exactly the same movie had been made with the intention of it being a comedy we might hail it as genius.

        I don’t know, I’ve drunk way too much coffee today but to me a truly “terrible” movie is something that feels totally joyless, cynical, generic and uninspired. I can’t say that I’d apply any of those adjectives to “Troll 2” though.

        “Halloween: Resurrection” is a different matter all together though!

        • It’s a fair and legitimate point, David. As Juan said (here or on MSC, I forget), his guilty pleasures aren’t guilty. I’d say that’s largely true for me too. But, speaking as a film reviewer, I feel like I have to take a slightly different approach because I’m telling other people what to watch.

          I always try to distinguish between my objective viewpoint of the quality of filmmaking with my rating and my personal enjoyment of the film with my recommendation.

          As a reviewer, I’d have to say that TROLL 2 is so bad that it’s good. It’s not actually good. Whether JASON X is good, bad, or so bad it’s good is a discussion we’ll be having on the podcast, so I will save it for now.

          HALLOWEEN: RESURRECTION is not good and it’s not so bad it’s good, but I don’t think it’s as bad as everyone says, either. There are lots of redeemable things about it that compliment the franchise. It’s just underwhelming.

          • There needs to be a special podcasting event with a live chat where Josh and Busta Rhymes try to defend Halloween: Resurrection.

          • Well, Busta’s casting is among the worst parts of the movie, BUT I still think the line is hilarious and I don’t mind the writing for his character if the casting were different. Also, I think I successfully defended the film when we covered it AND, yes, bring on the Busta interview!

      • I see what you mean. Jason X sounds like it’s trying to be cool, where Jay of the Dead indicates he’s one of the masses. Maybe.

        I see where you’re coming from. Also, I really look forward to your Jason X review.

        If you hate it, I won’t listen to the voices in my head.

        I promise.

  7. I’m from Elmira N.Y. and I found your shows randomly. I enjoy listening when a new episode comes out. For the contest I say in order part 4 part 7 and lastly part 6

  8. I’ve been listening to the podcast for quite a while, and it’s great!

    I remember watching Halloween and Friday the 13th as a kid, and finding the Friday the 13th had a bigger impact on me, and not just because the killer shared my name. Halloween was a little boring and slow for me, and Friday the 13th always kept the different kills coming. I’ve grown to like Halloween as I’ve gotten older, but Friday the 13th was just more fun and visceral. The fact that it may have “ripped off” Halloween is an empty excuse for putting the movie down. Led Zeppelin ripped off old blues singers, but they added their own personality to make it unique. Now they’re in the rock n’ roll hall of fame. Prince ripped off James Brown, but again he added his own style and made it his own. Now he’s in the rock n’ roll hall of fame. Filmmakers do the same thing. Blade Runner ripped off old noir films, but I don’t think anyone would discard it as a rip off. Star wars ripped off old Flash Gordon serials. If you have a predisposition or irrational loyalty to another competing film series, it’s easy to find fault with a movie. Hunger Games ripped off Battle Royal which ripped off Lord of the Flies. It can be said about anything. And just because Halloween made more money than Friday the 13th in its initial theatrical run doesn’t really mean its better. If money were the determining factor, then Michael Bay would be the greatest filmmaker of all time, and we all know that’s not true. God, I hope it’s not true.

    Now off my soap box.

    Best Friday the 13th Movies:
    Friday the 13th – the original is not the best acted or the most well written but it’s got Kevin Bacon and a crazy mother on a killing spree. There’s nothing like it.
    Friday the 13th Part 3 – Jason becomes an unlikely charasmatic icon in a hockey mask and it’s kinda funny to watch them try to wedge in cheesy 3D moments.
    Friday the 13th The Final Chapter – Corey Feldman with a shaved head and short shorts is probably the creepiest thing I have ever seen.

    Keep the podcasts coming! And maybe give a little love to Hellraiser.

    • Great, a blindly-devoted Friday-head who wants to battle me on the boards. I’ve been expecting this inevitability. I’m surprised it took so long.

      First of all, I never said that HALLOWEEN was better than F13th because it made more money. I was saying that F13th wasn’t vastly more popular than HALLOWEEN, which is what was being argued by Jason X. Unlike quality, popularity can in fact be directly calculated by money, obviously.

      Second, I never intended to put the movie down for being a rip-off. It was a side note that accounted for 0.5-1 point coming off my score. Darling Jason X turned that side note into the first half of the show and brought it up again when BillChete came on. My intention was to start with that Victor Miller clip as a jumping off point, not as my driving criticism, but I’m very happy with the conversation that came from it in the end, so no complaints from a podcasting point of view.

      Of course, I’m well aware that “borrowing” from predecessors is part of the evolution of any advancement in the world, including the arts. I have no problem learning from those who came before. That’s just smart. And, as I said in my closing, I have absolutely no problem with a loving homage either …

      But a blatant attempt to rip-off a work of art for financial gain is abhorrent to me. And there is a big difference between BLADE RUNNER borrowing from the classics to tell a modern (nay, futuristic) story and F13th copying (with the sole attempt to recreate the finical success) something that came out the year before. Get with it, man.

      Anyway, if any of you F13th fans want to continue to live in denial about the origins of this franchise, go for it. I’d rather take it as what it obviously is and move-on to discuss the positives of the film and the franchise, of which there are many. In fact, I didn’t even get to discuss all of the positives I had in my notes for this film, due to rehashing the same points.

      The biggest mistake I made, which I’ll happily admit to, was that I accidentally referred to BLACK CHRISTMAS as SILENT NIGHT, DEADLY NIGHT. Surprised I haven’t been called out on that slip of the tongue. The rest of my arguments were pretty sound, sir. But, if anyone else wants to dance, let’s do it. My card is now open.

  9. I’m curious to know if everyone that’s posted their top three Friday the 13th movies have seen the movies recently in order to pick what you like now rather than what you think you liked as a kid or a teenager. I’ve been re-watching them (so far part 1-4 and part 6) and I have to say that there are definitely things that I see now that are going to have an impact of my final list once I get through all movies. But for the sake of the contest, here is my list as it stands now:

    1. Friday the 13th Part 1
    2. Friday the 13th Part 8
    3. Jason X
    4. Friday the 13th Part 4
    5. Friday the 13th Part 3
    6. Friday the 13th Part 2
    7. Friday the 13th Part 7
    8. Friday the 13th Part 6
    9. Friday the 13th (remake)
    10. Freddy vs. Jason
    11. Friday the 13th Part 5
    12. Jason Goes to Hell

    And some of these I would actually tie, for instance 4 and 3 are pretty much neck to neck for me. Same thing with 8 and X.

        • Josh! I’m so sorry, did I not let you know that I received your package? I have got it and I’m waiting for the right opportunity to jump into my very first Akira Kurosawa film. Can you believe that? I know, I suck, but I’m more than willing to correct that. Anyway, thank you very much for the movie. I can’t wait to see it.

    • Juan
      I’ve thought about this also…My preferences for the F13 movies have changed over the years. I was always ALL about part 4 from the get-go…it’s just the perfect 80’s horror movie. I will also admit part 2 has grown to be one of my favorites after years of re-watching, while part 6 has fallen off a little. Believe it or not I’ve also gained some love for part 5, which I used to completely disregard as a “non-Jason” movie! It’s funny how tastes can change over years. I was probably seven or eight years old when I started watching these movies. Amazingly I’ve never lost interest in them as a franchise though. Anyway here’s my current list:
      1. Friday the 13th part 4 – ’nuff said for now…
      2. Friday the 13th part 2 – Ginny was the best heroin
      3. Friday the 13th part 7 – sad victim of the MPAA
      4. Friday the 13th part 3 – best final battle
      5. Friday the 13th – classic creepiness
      6. Friday the 13th part 8 – good outweighs the bad
      7. Friday the 13th part 6 – mixed emotions on this one
      8. Jason X – The best of the “newer” ones by far
      9. Friday the 13th part 5 – some interesting kills and randomness
      10. Jason Goes to Hell – opening scene should’ve been end scene
      11. The 2009 remake – can’t deal with slaver Jason
      12. Freddie vs. Jason – this was cringe-worthy

    • @Juan JASON X is your third favorite movie in the franchise?!!! I can understand the rest of your rankings, though I often disagree, they are arguable, but I don’t see how X comes in so high.

      • Haha why are you so surprised? I’ve only been championing it ever since I heard that you guys were doing a F13 franchise review. It’s difficult to rank the movies in this franchise because I love them all, well, most of them. Just because I ranked one movie over the other doesn’t mean that there is a great gap between them. In other words, the scores I would give the films doesn’t vary greatly. Another thing is that the quality of the movies (the majority of them at least) is not as clear cut as in other franchises. So, when I say that I prefer Jason X over part 4, it shouldn’t be taken too seriously. In a franchise like Halloween for instance, if I were to say that I preferred Resurrection over Halloween, then that’d be a laughable statement because there’s no denying that Halloween is the superior movie in that franchise. Most importantly though, I’m not approaching these movies as a serious film critic, I’m just letting my personal preferences lead the way–and in this case they’re telling me that Jason X rulez!

          • I will try to come up with a better argument in time for the podcast, because I really do think that there is a case to make for Jason X if you consider how rotten the scores of all the movies are in a site like rottentomatoes. I know that you’ve said in the past that you don’t like going by what rottentomatoes says, but I think it’s worth taking into account. Anyway, here are the scores as they stand today 02/16/15. They include both the critics and audiences’ scores:

            Friday the 13th – 58%
            Friday the 13th Part 2 – 33%
            Friday the 13th Part 3 – 13%
            Friday the 13th Part 4 – 26%
            Friday the 13th Part 5 – 17%
            Friday the 13th Part 6 – 54%
            Friday the 13th Part 7 – 28%
            Friday the 13th Part 8 – 9%
            Jason Goes to Hell – 25%
            Jason X – 20%
            Friday the 13th (remake) – 25%

            And if you notice, there are three movies that scored lower than Jason X, and three of the movies that did score higher, are only 5-6% higher. So, in conclusion, maybe Jason X is not such a bad Friday the 13th movie after all.

            *cue applause*

    • @Juan – I considered this very thing when thinking about my own favorites of the franchise. For now, I’m going to have to go with my three favorites from yesteryear because it’s been about 15 years since I did a full run-through of the franchise (and that pre-dated everything from JASON X and after). Those three would be:

      3. JASON LIVES: FRIDAY THE 13TH PART VI (1986)
      2. FRIDAY THE 13TH (1980)
      1. FRIDAY THE 13TH PART 2 (1981)

      That said, I’ll be interested to see how I feel now after finishing my re-watch of the complete franchise. Also, as much as I love making lists, I never really did that for the F13 series because so many of the films fall very close together on my preference scale. I anticipate that this will be a difficult exercise.

      @JOTD – For the shirt, I was living in NYC when I first started listening to the podcast and when I dropped my (epic) iTunes review, so I’ve given you that town before. Now, I’m living in Cleveland, so not sure how you want to handle (maybe double-dip?).

  10. I’ve listened to this episode twice, and I definitely have a few things to say (I’m looking at you, Wolfman Josh). But, first, I need to catch up on the comments…

      • Dino, I’ll try to get to those two last episodes this week and I’ll report back. That first episode though.

        Josh, I’ll finally get to Clue tonight. I received The Zero Theorem and Force Majeure over the weekend and I gave those priority I’m sorry to say. But tonight!

          • Glad you like it too, Dino. One of my favorite comedies. I begged Juan and David to watch it for a couple of weeks over on the Movie Stream Cast comment boards. David finally gave in and liked it pretty well. Gave it an 8/10. Excited to hear what Juan thinks.

          • @Wolfman Josh – I’m still reeling from the news that two self-proclaimed movie lovers such as David and Juan hadn’t seen CLUE (said the guy who just recently saw THE FLY for the first time).

          • This is coming from the guy who just saw The Fly? Haha give me time, man. Actually, tonight is the night. Wish me luck!

          • Juan, you’re toying with my heart here. And Dino, Juan’s got some bigger list of shame items to deal with than CLUE. The guy’s never seen a Kurosawa film!

        • I like JASON X for what it is, but I don’t love it. My guess is that I like JASON X about as much as Wolfman Josh likes HALLOWEEN: RESURRECTION.

          Then again, I’d like to reserve final judgement until I’ve completed my re-watch of the entire series. It’s been awhile since I’ve seen quite a few from the franchise, including JASON X.

      • @Wolfman Josh – After going through the comments, I feel like there’s little point to me rehashing a lot of the arguments that have already been made (by Grey Imp and Jason M, in particular). You’ve essentially already given your response for much of what I would have to say, in that regard.

        My main issue with your position during the podcast discussion, though, was how your affection for HALLOWEEN (1978) was apparently interfering with your impression of FRIDAY THE 13TH (1980). I felt like you were unable to remove the filmmaker’s original intentions (to cash in on Halloween’s success) from the end result. I can understand why taking the overall concept and several specific elements from various films would upset someone who creates art for a living, such as yourself, but I think it’s unfair to discount what the film was able to achieve because of it. And, it felt like that’s what was happening.

        That said, I noticed here in your comments that you only docked about 0.5-1 point for this, which I think is reasonable. Your position was certainly portrayed differently in the podcast discussion, though.

        As for the double red herring issue, I guess I didn’t read it the same way. I don’t see the 1958 killings as a red herring, but more just a straight cold open killing that helps to show the history of “Camp Blood” and what the killer is capable of. Sure, we get that through exposition later in the movie, but I think showing it up front is more effective.

        The real red herring – Annie’s death – is great on two levels. First, as Grey Imp already pointed out, it really shows the audience that all bets are off and anyone can die at any time. Perhaps even more interestingly, though, is that we see Steve Christy leave camp just a few minutes earlier in the same exact Jeep that Annie jumps into (being driven by the killer). Combine that with Steve’s general creepiness, and there’s your red herring.

        Your point about how not showing Mrs. Voorhees until the very end cheats the film of a tangible mystery storyline is one I never really considered. The movie would have been very different with that element added; I wonder if it would have been better or worse for it. Personally, the blind reveal at the end never bothered me because it’s not that kind of movie to me. I don’t think the movie is lacking by not having that additional mystery “whodunit” plot, but that’s still an interesting consideration.

        That’s all I have for now. Like I said, my main objection was your dismissive attitude toward the film because of the filmmaker’s original intentions, but your comments on the board helped to paint a slightly tempered picture than your words (or JOTD’s editing, perhaps) on the podcast.

        • Dino, I love ya, but you’re bringing a knife to a gunfight.

          See, I just refuse to take the blame for most of what you’re trying to tag me with. Jason X is the one who was fighting these tired points and wouldn’t stop bringing them up over and over again, despite the fact that he was patently wrong. I was really just reporting facts as told by the writer and director in their own words on the DVD release of this very movie! What am I, just supposed to let Jay deliver misinformation to the audience? No way, that’s where this movie came from. Let’s be honest.

          And I do have a problem with cash-grab ripoffs. That is a legitimate criticism of the film. It has little to do with my love for HALLOWEEN and I reject that objection of yours as well. I was just pointing out that this film repeatedly rips off other horror films (PSYCHO, TEXAS CHAINSAW MASSACRE, JAWS, HALLOWEEN) because the filmmakers didn’t know how to make a horror film of their own. That’s just history, man. It’s not my fault. I’d have been happy to start with that Victor Miller clip and move on, but Jay was being stubborn about it because he, like the rest of y’all, had his panties in a bunch because I was so matter-of-fact about it.

          Was I too dismissive? If you say so. I apologize for that. As I’ve said, I’m a casual fan of these films, so maybe I didn’t show the proper respect of walking on the hallowed grounds of Camp Crystal Lake, but I didn’t actually say anything controversial if we’re being honest. I apologize if my tone was offensive. That was me just trying to put on a show. There is no drama without conflict, right? It was all in good fun.

          But, truthfully, I wasn’t even being snide about it until Jay tried to shame me in front of BillChete (who I love but am terrified of) AND say that I was being passive-aggressive (which I honestly didn’t intend). At that point, I decided to have some fun with it.

          And you guys also keep acting like I want to add something foreign to the film by making it a whodunnit. It’s already is whodunnit! That’s what they were going for! It’s just a lazy whodunnit! Again, not my fault for pointing out the obvious. Victor Miller’s ripping-off (here, I would be willing to say homaging) standard Agatha Christie plotting, but he cheats on the ending. I promise that it would have been more satisfying if we’d just met the kind old Pamela earlier on. Every whodunnit is. This is that kind of movie, Dino. It really is. It’s working the entire movie to play up the mystery and red harings. The matching Jeep you mentioned … never seeing the killer! It’s Giallo 101, man!

          We’ll have to agree to disagree about the double opening. Call it what you will. Victor Miller did (what he calls) the “prior evil” scene from HALLOWEEN and then the “red haring protag” from PSYCHO. I’d have preferred one to leave more time to flesh out the underserved elements.

          And can I remind everyone that this is all about a film I gave a 7.5 to and said “Buy It”? I love this movie and I even embrace a lot of the elements Jay and BillChete say are problems. I’m totally accepting of this movie for what it is.

          And I just want to say again, if you didn’t like how much time was dedicated to the rip-off elements of FRIDAY THE 13th, blame Jay for not having the facts straight before we started recording, not me for plainly reporting them. It’s going to come up again in subsequent episodes. Let’s hope we can deliver the facts and move on to other aspects of the film.

          • @Wolfman Josh – I think you meant machete, not knife. See, you can’t even keep HALLOWEEN out of your weapon analogies, you big Halloweenie!

            All joking aside, I think what we have here is a combination of LOST IN TRANSLATION and THE ACCUSED. In other words, I may not have accurately portrayed my thoughts (or tone), while you were likely on the defensive to begin with.

            As I said in my comments above, much of the initial trouble I had with your position on the podcast had been tempered by your comments here on the board. The flippant tone you took on the show doesn’t quite match up with what you’ve said since, and I even mention JOTD’s editing (probably not the right word) as the possible culprit! I also acknowledge that I am on the defensive when it comes to F13 because this is “my franchise.” All things considered, though, I definitely enjoyed the battle on the podcast.

            I’ll admit that it’s unfair for me to have assumed it was your affection of HALLOWEEN that drove your cynicism, although that’s certainly how it came across to me on the show. Yes, you mentioned several other movie influences, but your comments always seemed to circle back to HALLOWEEN. Still, I shouldn’t have assumed your opinion on that matter was anything less than objective.

            That’s neither here nor there, though, because there were two main points I was trying to get across with my opening remarks apart from the HALLOWEEN influence. The first was that I disagree with your criticism that FRIDAY THE 13TH is less of a film because it ripped off several elements of already successful movies. Several artists attempt to ripoff what’s worked in the past (as has been pointed out already), but not all are successful. However, as I said before, I can understand the flipside of that argument, so we’ll have to agree to disagree on this point. Besides, as I also mentioned above, removing 0.5-1 point for this seems reasonable to me.

            The second (and bigger) point I was trying to make is that FRIDAY THE 13TH has had an undeniably huge influence on horror, not just in the ’80s but beyond. It helped to define the slasher sub-genre, and essentially created the horror franchise (to your credit, both points were discussed on the podcast). The fact that the filmmakers didn’t know how to make a horror movie beforehand doesn’t change the fact that they created a highly successful and effective horror film. Perhaps it was accidental brilliance, but it was brilliance nonetheless.

            You’re right about the whodunnit element. I misspoke when I framed it as an “additional” whodunnit plot. Yes, that mystery element was already present in the film (I even mentioned the Annie/Steve Christy/Jeep red herring). What I meant to say, though, is that the thinness of the mystery never really bothered me.

            That said, I never considered how introducing Mrs. Voorhees earlier in the film would have changed it until you mentioned that on the podcast. I thought that was an excellent point, and audibly said “huh” as I was listening. It certainly would have made the mystery element more tangible and substantive, but I’m still unsure whether or not that would have improved the film overall (i.e. I’m not sure the mystery element is, or would have been, the main draw). Still, it’s an interesting consideration.

            In the end, we’re not too far off from each other in overall rating and opinion. I’m interested in seeing how you feel about the rest of the franchise. I think one of the most interesting aspects of F13 is that there is great parity among fans as to which are the best movies in the series. You don’t normally see that in other horror franchises (or movie franchises, in general). I’m willing to bet the 1980 original isn’t your favorite of the series.

    • I’m loving all the new faces who are appearing on the comments. I don’t know if it’s a product of the giveaway or the brilliance of F13, but it’s great either way (and I hope it continues).

      • I’ve noticed that too, Dino. I hope they become regulars. And I love that The Dude is back. I’m still waiting for hisdinnerisintheoven to make a comeback.

      • I think it is because the contest is forcing people to come to the site. This podcast has a huge amount of listeners compared to our other shows. I wish more of them would see how great a community is being fostered here in the comments by you fine gentlemen and women.

        • >Wolfman Josh on February 16, 2015 at 11:47 pm said:
          “…This podcast has a huge amount of listeners compared to our other shows. I wish more of them would see how great a community is being fostered here in the comments by you fine gentlemen and women.”

          @Wolfman Josh – Not just here, but across the entire family of movie podcasts put out by you, Jay, and co. Thanks to you all, I get a nice three-course meal of movie reviews and dialogue every week. MSC kicks things off as the appetizer, a bite-sized yet tasty way to whet your movie appetite. Then, MPW serves as the entrée, providing substantive, general film and entertainment discourse. Finally, HMP puts the cherry on top as the dessert to the meal; we don’t have dessert after every meal and dessert certainly isn’t for everyone. But, for those who do partake, it is the sweetest part of the meal.

          Hopefully the Sci-Fi Podcast can step in to make sure we can have dessert after every meal.

          BillChete was right when he said you guys are building a conglomerate. Just keep pushing out high quality content. You never know, you could turn into the next TWiT network.

          p.s. My apologies for the cheesy analogy (no pun intended). Just thought it fit nicely.

  11. Pingback: Movie Podcast Weekly Ep. 125: Kingsman: The Secret Service (2015) and Fifty Shades of Grey (2015) |

  12. I love the entire franchise but if I had to pick 3 at any given time to watch…3. Jason X…2. Friday the 13th (remake)…1. Freddy Vs Jason…nothing against the other entries…I just find these 3 the most entertaining and satisfying of the bunch…once again…healing in Atlantic, IA…

    • Those are some bold choices my friend. I’m loving that everyone’s lists are completely different haha. Jay, do you think there’s a way to to compile everyone’s lists and come up with a master list of what the “best” movies in the franchise are (kind of like you did for the top movie of 2014). Or maybe you could set up a poll and have people vote on their favorite movie of the franchise? I don’t know, something to think about.

      • This ties in exactly with what I was saying in my rant to Wolfman Josh about how F13 is unique in its parity among fan opinion on the best movies of the series. Juan, I love your idea about doing a compilation list similar to what JOTD did for the 2014 list. Something like that would be great for the franchise review episode on March 13th.

        • This is much needed!!!! Sleeping bag bashing in part 7 would definitely be on there!
          Dino I can throw out some more nominees to get this started. Give me 1/2 a day!

  13. Great job as always guys. Love that the Friday franchise is getting the deep treatment. Josh – I wanted to address your point about Annie and the double-kill. I don’t think it’s redundant and it serves a couple of purposes: 1) the opening scene in 1958. While not a completely “bloodless kill”, it’s pretty benign. I think it’s Annie’s death that really sets the tone for the rest of the film. While the effect might look dated nowadays, it was pretty gruesome (and convincing) back in the 80s. It lets you know just what kind of movie you’re going to be watching for the next 80 min. or so. 2) It allows us a chance to get all of the exposition on Camp Crystal Lake history and 3) it establishes that the killer could be absolutely anyone, someone who “looks” safe enough to hitch a ride with out in the middle of nowhere.

    Just my two-cents. Love what you bring to the show! Can’t wait to hear everyone’s thoughts on Part 2, as it’s my personal favorite. Scary as hell and I love that you have the Stu Charno character who should bite it according to slasher rules, but completely escapes the carnage because he opts to stay out drinking.

    Keep up the great work!

    • Hey, Rick
      I hope the gang mentions the Stu Charno (“Ted”) thing also. That was very unexpected. I’m with you on part 2; it’s actually my second favorite. Awesome atmosphere and one of the better endings of the series.
      Amy Steele as Ginny is by far the best heroin of the series. Wish she had a part in some of the sequels.
      Anyone think there was a better heroin or hero in the series??

      • Completely agree that Amy Steele was the best final girl of the series. Always wondered why her career never really took off after Part 2 and April Fool’s Day. I found the heroines of the other movies somewhat bland (except for Alice), but that might just by my bias toward the first two movies showing.

      • @Grey Imp – Ginny is great, and Part 2 is actually my favorite (see above). But, I’ll throw the obvious name into the ring – Tommy Jarvis. He was able to survive multiple movies in the franchise AND once killed Jason. Most importantly, though, he brought Jason back from the dead and, in the process, saved us from going down the dark path that Part V tried to take us.

        • With all this Part 2 talk, I’m tempted to switch it with Part 3 on my list. But I love Part 3’s cheesiness and I love Shelly’s goofy pranks. I hold him very dear to my heart because he gave Jason his mask and also because I see a bit of myself in him. But yeah, Ginny is great and that ending is probably my favorite of the series.

          • Greatest line of part 3 –
            Someone: “This is Shelly – he’s your date.”
            Shelly: “Sorry.”

            Haha he is a great character. FX genius. When I was little and I saw that part where he plays dead in the closet with the clever in his head, I jumped and thought for sure he was victim #1….little did I know the wizardry of one rotund jester named Shelly!
            Btw – the actor who played him as some great commentary in the book “Crystal Lake Memories”

    • All good points, Rick. I absolutely agree with your 3rd point. For the 1st and 2nd points, yes, those would have to be compensated for with my notes. I’m not suggesting leaving the first kill bloodless or excising the exposition. I just think a lot of time is wasted that could be more effectively used.

  14. The best kill by far is the hitchhicker going to Canada at the beginning of part 4…the close up of her hand squeezing that banana is the scariest fucking thing I’ve ever seen and haunts me to this day…

  15. Ok as promised. Here are my top 10 kills from the Friday the 13th kills scenes. I rate these as the kills that seem the most horrific, creative, and least desirable, not necessarily the most well-executed by the fx teams or the most gory. Maybe that can be a different list.

    #1 – Part 4: – Paul, he goes swimming, finds Sam dead on the raft, then is skewered by Jason’s harpoon while in the lake…by his nuts. This one still gives me the shivers when I watch it…This would be sooooo painful!

    #2 – Part 7 Judy, the girl in the tent. She encloses herself in the sleeping bag as protection from Jason, who then violently bashes her against the tree several times. This is the most creative way to bludgeon a person. Great resourcefulness out of Mr. Voorhees…working with what he has, spur of the moment.

    #3 – Part 6 – Sheriff Garris..He is bent backward oh-so-awkwardly after shooting Jason a bunch of times.The sound effect was great…That’s what you get!

    #4 – Part 5 – Eddie, after having sex with his girl, he is strapped to a tree with a leather belt. Faux Jason then cranks a stick around, tightening the belt and
    crushing his eyes/brain…fantastic!

    #5 – Part 8 – Julius, tries to “box” Jason. Gets his head knocked off on top of the building…”Give me your best shot mutha fucka…” Love it when the victims try to “fight” Jason.

    #6 – Jason X – Adrienne, the blond – She is pinned down and her head is turned into some kind of dry ice matter. What’s remaining is then smashed like glass by Jason. The chick was one of the hottest of the series – a shame she had to go out this way.

    #7 – Part 6: Hawes, in the introduction, the guy who’s friends with Tommy. Jason punches him through the chest and also removes what appears to be his heart in the process…This one always got me scared when I was younger.

    #8 – Part 3 – Rick, the boyfriend of Cris…Lifted up by the head and then the head is just crushed like a Hi-C juicebox as his eyes pops towards the camera…Bonus points for the 3D in that one!

    #9 – Part 3 – Andy, the guy who walks on his hands. He runs into Jason who chops him perfectly in two pieces as he is performing. The way the kill was edited was great; too bad it was trimmed for MPAA

    #10 – Part 8 – Charles, the principal…Stuffed and drowned in a barrel of toxic waste/rat fodder in the alley. This was great comeuppance for this a-hole. He definitely met the Drowned God here.

    Of course there are others. I’d like to know what you all think! What have I missed???

    • Great list, Grey Imp. Your number 2 is my number 1 kill in any horror movie ever. I’m so bummed we didn’t get a chance to discuss Andy’s death in Part 3. The kills is crazy and the aftermath is even more shocking.

  16. Friday the 13th is my movie (and franchise)….I love it. Gentlemen, thanks for the special podcast dedicated solely to this franchise.

    Jay of the Dead, you always do a great job….I dig your sense of humor! Keep it up, Brother!

    BillChete rocked on this episode and I agree with all of his statements about the franchise.

    Wolfman Josh, I usually appreciate your excellent insight and educated discussion, however you came off as a Friday the 13th hater in this episode…so I am mentally deleting all of your comments from my memory bank – right now.

    Gentlemen ~ Keep up the outstanding job you do!

    Slasher Matt (Huntingtown, Maryland)

    • By the way my F13 movies ranked.

      1. Part 2
      2. Part 1
      3. Final Chapter
      4. Part 3
      5. Part 6
      6. Part 7
      7. Remake (2009)
      8. Part 5
      9. Freddy vs Jason
      10. Jason X
      11. Part 8
      12. Part 9 (sigh….)

    • You FRIDAY THE 13th fans are so sensitive. You realize that I just shared quotes from the director and writer, right? I like these movies. I gave this one a 7.5 and said “Buy It!” Don’t shoot the messenger. Thanks, Slasher Matt. I’ll try not to disappoint you next time.

  17. When I was around 9 years old, my friend’s family had a huge video tape collection of all kinds of movies (illegally copied I guess). She watched everything and would re-enact Friday 13th (1) at school for us during lunch. I eventually watched it at her house one afternoon and didn’t sleep for days!

  18. Unfortunately I haven’t had a chance to check in for a little while and comeback to discover this treat. Great to be back. Anyway for my top 3 is as follows-
    1) IV
    2) II
    3) VII- probably an unconventional pick but the plot line is so crazy that I have to love it and c’mon, the sleeping bag into the tree kill is the best in franchise history

    All the best guys and thanks for all the delightful hours of entertainment you provide your listeners.
    All the best,
    Christian
    Remsenburg, NY

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