Horror Movie Podcast Ep. 043: Friday the 13th Part 2 (1981) and Friday the 13th Part 3 (1982) and Friday the 13th: The Final Chapter (1984)

HMP Ep 043

Welcome to the second installment of our FRIDAY THE 13th FRANCHISE REVIEW for HORROR MOVIE PODCAST, where we’re dead serious about horror movies… Obviously.

Just as we did for the Halloween films back in October 2014, we’re bringing you a multi-part series of in-depth, hardcore Jason Voorhees analysis! In this episode, we bring you debates and reviews for Friday the 13th Part 2 (1981) and Friday the 13th Part 3 (1982) and Friday the 13th: The Final Chapter (1984). Join us or die.

Horror Movie Podcast is typically a bi-weekly show that’s released every other Friday. If you’d like to support our show, please subscribe to our podcast free in iTunes, and leave us a review! And remember, we love getting your voice mails, so call in with more recommendations and comments at this number: (801) 382-8789 Thanks for listening to Horror Movie Podcast!

SHOW NOTES:

I. Introduction

Prize giveaway for this episode:
Prize – Jason Voorhees figure and a small poster

Here’s how you can qualify to potentially win:
1. Leave a comment in the show notes or e-mail us at HorrorMoviePodcast@gmail.com
2. Indicate which city you’re writing from
3. Tell us your Top 3 favorite Friday the 13th films in order
Spread the word about HMP by recommending us on Facebook, Twitter, etc. Or leave us a review in iTunes.


[ 0:07:35 ] II. Feature Review: FRIDAY THE 13th PART 2 (1981)
Jay of the Dead = 8 ( Buy it! )
Wolfman Josh = 6.5 ( Strong Rental )
Revised on Franchise Overview from = 6 ( Strong Rental )
Dr. Shock = 9 ( Buy it! )


[ 1:12:00 ] III. Feature Review: FRIDAY THE 13th PART 3 (1982)
Jay of the Dead = 8.5 ( Buy it! )
Wolfman Josh = 5 ( Rental )
Revised on Franchise Overview from = 6 ( Strong Rental )
Dr. Shock = 8.5 ( Buy it! )


[ 2:00:44 ] IV. Feature Review: FRIDAY THE 13th: THE FINAL CHAPTER (1984)
Jay of the Dead = 8 ( Buy it! )
Wolfman Josh = 9 ( Buy it! )
Dr. Shock = 9.5 ( Buy it! )


V. Wrap-Up / Plugs / Ending
— “Hot Ice” – Theme from Friday the 13th Part 3


JOIN US NEXT FRIDAY ON HMP: For our third installment of Friday the 13th franchise reviews, releasing on Friday, February 27th.

LINKS FOR THIS EPISODE:

Wolfman Josh’s links:
Wolfman Josh on Twitter: @IcarusArts
Wolfman covers movies streaming online on: Movie Stream Cast

Dr. Shock’s links:
Dr. Shock’s daily movie review Web site: DVD Infatuation.com
Dr. Shock on Twitter: @DVDinfatuation
Dr. Shock’s other horror podcast: Land of the Creeps

Jay of the Dead’s links:
Jay of the Dead and Horror Movie Podcast Official Twitter: @HorrorMovieCast
Jay of the Dead covers new releases in theaters on: Movie Podcast Weekly
And if you’d like to e-mail Jay of the Dead with a good Beastly Freaks recommendation: BeastlyFreaks@gmail.com

Dr. Walking Dead’s Links
Dr. Walking Dead on Twitter: @DrWalkingDead
Dr. Walking Dead’s books American Zombie Gothic and Triumph of The Walking Dead

You can always contact us by e-mailing HorrorMoviePodcast@gmail.com. Or you can call and leave us a voice mail at: (801) 382-8789. And you can leave us a comment in the show notes for this episode.

Special thanks goes out to singer-songwriter Frederick Ingram for the use of his music for Horror Movie Podcast.

If you like Horror Movie Podcast, please subscribe and leave us a review in iTunes. If you want to support the show, we have PayPal buttons on our sister site, Movie Podcast Weekly.com, in the right-hand sidebar where you can make a one-time donation or you can become a recurring donor for just $2 per month. (Every little bit helps!)

NOTE FOR NEWCOMERS: If you love this podcast, there are 36 episodes of two other great podcasts that precede this one. Just scroll back through our archives, or use the links in the sidebar on the right.

Thanks for listening, and join us again next Friday for HORROR MOVIE PODCAST!


152 thoughts on “Horror Movie Podcast Ep. 043: Friday the 13th Part 2 (1981) and Friday the 13th Part 3 (1982) and Friday the 13th: The Final Chapter (1984)

  1. You guys gang up on Jason a bit when he’s elaborating on his more supernatural reading of Jason’s apparent return from the dead but I actually found this perspective really interesting. I like the thought of Jason as more of a spirit so evil that it can flicker in and out of existence. Appearing sometimes as a tragic child and other times as a murderous monster, depending on what manner of evil the situation had summoned. If you look at it like that then it makes the continuity issues of the series far less of a problem.

      • But there’s nothing in those movies to suggest that he isn’t a supernatural force. He certainly has supernatural strength and endurance. I like the theory that he really drowned as a kid and that this event was so tragic he was never really fully able to pass on to the next world and then the additional tragedy of his mothers death brought him back to the physical realm somehow. Like he’s just a negative force that transcends logic. I know that’s a big stretch and definitely giving the writers way too much credit but it’s a cool angle. I almost wish the remake had gone in that direction. Having him more like an evil force haunting Crystal Lake that sometimes manages to manifest itself as a tangible entity and wreak havoc.

        • Buddy, that’s fan-fiction. Believe me, I get your point. I tried to express something similar in Part 1, but Jay cut it out (maybe because it dealt with latter films in the franchise or maybe just because I was rambling). But, you’re doing so much work on your own to bring that story together. You and Jay aren’t following the Occam’s Razor of buying into the story they present:

          They go to great lengths to give him a grounded backstory in Part 2. They make him a home, tell us about his diet, etc. Part 3 shows him fumbling around in the woods trying to rape. Not protect his home. Not kill anyone. Your theory also doesn’t account for the difference in his age between Parts 1 and 2 or the perfect preservation of his physical body from 1957 to 1979 to 1984 vs the complete degradation of his body between his death in Part 4, his rebirth in 6, and his eventual trip to Hell. Also, if he haunts the camp, how do you explain his exit from the camp to places like San Francisco, Manhattan, and outer space. I don’t know why anyone wants to defend this. It’s a mess.

          • Josh, you’re right that it’s pretty much fan-fiction. I have no illusions about the writers actually thinking along these lines. Also your points about the more grounded details in parts 2 and 3 do make the theory seem even more clunky than it already is.

            As for the age discrepancy/continuity problems concerning why he later becomes a decaying corpse if he’s already been dead all along, well I think this theory does account for those issues (although in an extremely lazy way). As I said if he’s just an evil force coming in and out of existence then he might come back in one instance as the little boy who drowned years earlier and then in another as a more destructive and powerful force. Maybe he lost the innocence of a child after the events of part 1 and came back from the ether as a more monstrous entity. Maybe his appearances are somehow dependent on the events leading up to them. When Tommy Jarvis finally “kills” him again (or maybe exorcises the evil of Jason?) he therefore returns in a form more fitting; that of a zombie.
            Also where’s the rule that says a haunting entity can’t travel to other locations if pulled with enough force? I’m sure I’ve seen ghost movies end where we think the protagonist is safe and away from danger only to have the evil entity show up in their apartment or new home.

            But I know that in reality the writers simply didn’t care. At the time this kind of horror franchise was a fairly new thing and I think most of the movies (particularly the earliest handful) were designed to be simple, standalone horror rides the details of which the audience would probably/hopefully forget before the next was one released. I’m not trying to make excuses for the terrible continuity in these movies because to be honest I’m willing to accept that for what it is but I just think it’s interesting to to take something so narratively retarded and put a more abstract, ethereal reading on it. It’s fun.

          • I like to fan fic this series myself. They obviously didn’t care.

            It’s a campfire tale series. So, each story told by another is going to be a bit different than what another said about Jason.

            However, the Book of the Dead in the basement of the Voorhees house is intriguing…if she used that book to attempt to resurrect her son, and it didn’t work, she starts hacking others up herself…and her son lies dormant in the lake until her blood is spilled.

            This explains his growth, regenerative powers, ability to come back from the dead, etc.

            It’s supposed to be fun. Why are you mad about it? You seemed so frustrated.

            These movies are junk, but they sure are fun junk.

          • As usual, I’m a day late and a dollar short when it comes to this stuff… but hey I figured I’d throw my hat into the ring. I like Unknown Murderer’s take on this as it’s similar to how I’ve always approached the “lore” of Jason. Jason is an urban legend, a campfire tale. And as is the case with so many urban legends, on the surface it seems believable (like you guys said, you can enjoy the movies when in a non analytical sense) but if you examine the particulars, these things tend to fall apart. It’s interesting that the film makers themselves called the ending to part 1 “the Carrie ending”. I think that says a lot of the intent to why it was there (rip off or not Josh :)). It’s there to give you a sense of unease…. is it a dream? Is it the ghost of Jason. Ultimately, as in Carrie, we’ll never know. It’s true, there is no continuity to the franchise (I think that’s true of all horror franchises), but for my purposes, I like to think of Jason as an urban legend-type force. Is it a ghost, monster, guy-in-the-woods-we-thought-was-dead-but-isn’t. I don’t know. Why is the same urban legend that was told 30 years ago still being whispered amongst kids today, but now it’s energy drinks instead of kool aid? But I do agree that if you try to logically connect the dots given what’s in the films, it’s ultimately an act of futility.

    • But the bottom line is, there’s nothing wrong with a movie fan assigning his or her own interpretation or understanding to a text or series of texts… We all do this with all media.

      For example, Wolfman: When you hear a song on the radio, I bet like everyone else, you usually associate that song with a personalized meaning relative to your own life, even if you know what the artist wrote the song about. Case in point: When we all hear Eric Clapton’s song, “Tears in Heaven,” we all understand that it was written in response to his little boy’s untimely death, when he fell out of a window. But I bet 98% of all the people who ever heard that song also think of a loved one who has passed away.

      In short, we can all assign our own meaning or interpretation to artistic works — even illogical ones — because artistic experience is subjective experience.
      JOTD

      • Okaaaaay. That’s a point.

        But, Jason X, you are actually completely misunderstanding me. You are mistaking my dissection of the films based on the text (the way we always do as post-modern critcs) for me clinging to what the authors intended. There is a big difference. I’m asking, “what reasonable conclusions can be drawn from what we are presented in the source material?” I don’t think your conclusions are reasonable (or supportable by the source material) because they force you to ignore a lot of information. It doesn’t jive … you know, the way Hot Ice jives.

        Now, if you’re saying you just want to pretend “White Lines” is about skiing rather than cocaine despite all evidence to the contrary, that’s your prerogative, but it wouldn’t give us much to discuss on a music podcast.

        • At the end of the day I think that unless the filmmakers give the audience a “reason” or explanation of things, then it is up to the audience to craft their own thoughts.

          I don’t really want to get drawn into this debate because I think that it was done to death in show 43 (which makes me question why I am even responding to this hahaha) but I have always taken the explanation given at part 2 at face value; Jason didn’t drown, he was living in the woods and he saw his mother killed by Alice. This set him off on his killing spree in Part 2. Sure there are a number of inconsistencies that exist with this theory but it does make sense to a degree.

          First off many of the details about Jason’s death are given to the viewer by Ms. Voorhees (in part one). I have a hard time taking her comments at face value simply because she’s batshit crazy. Perhaps she has simply created this history of her son dying or she just assumes that he’s dead to justify her killings.

          Second is if that far fetched? If Jason has a disability is it not possible that he almost drowned and in the aftermath he was panic and lost in the woods. His survival instinct takes over and he disassociates from his previous existence.

          Finally the thought of Jason living in the woods might also help explain or contribute to some of the things that the kids see in Part 1. I am referring to the mysterious characters lurking in the woods and even the extremely hair hands that are frequently seen.

          I’m not debating the origins of Jason, these are just my thoughts.

          And here is another thought that no one has considered…what if Jason was alive, living in the woods and Mrs. Voorhees know this and they were working together to kill the kids from Part 1? Think about some of the kills that take place and the strength that would have been required. Hell in half of the scenes Mrs. Voorhees could barely stand up and her fight scene with Alice didn’t lead me to believe that she was a killing machine.

          But hey….at the end of the day who cares. We always think that we want these answers, but in the end we are all just happy to see Jason knocking people off in new and exciting (and hopefully bloody) ways.

          Dude!

  2. Confound you, Jay, Wolfman & Doc! Slasher horror was never my number one subgenre– but thanks to you and your enthusiasm, I’m being pulled in like a tractor beam and wanting revisit all of these films… You’ve already given me a deeper appreciation for michael and now it’s jasons turn!

    Still zombies will always be my first love and I will never give up on the hope that one day you will cover the romero oeuvre warts and all!

    • @HisDinnersInTheOven:

      Yes, Wolfman beat me to it. It’s going to be a HUGE year for zombie coverage on HMP, courtesy of Dr. Walking Dead, so stay tuned.

      Also, I appreciate what you wrote about the slasher sub-genre. I love slashers myself, but I don’t fault people who dismiss them, because of all the horror sub-genres, it’s probably the most simplistic, formulaic and rote.

      We’ll get to this someday when we do a themed episode on slashers (as a follow-up to our proto-slasher theme), but to me, the most fascinating part about slashers is not what’s happening onscreen, but what’s happening in the mind of the slasher fan who’s watching… In other words, citing what’s interesting about the slasher narrative isn’t nearly as interesting to me as exploring the interplay between the sub-genre and its admirers.

      JOTD

      • I hope you guys cover some Fulci movies when you get to the zombie stuff. Especially “The Beyond”. That’s one of my all time favourites!

        • Man! I absolutely love the imagery and the music of Italian horror, but it’s generally not my cup of tea. Perhaps, like Dino said, this will be a perfect excuse to really get acquainted with it.

      • >Jay of the Dead on February 22, 2015 at 6:22 am said:
        “…Yes, Wolfman beat me to it. It’s going to be a HUGE year for zombie coverage on HMP, courtesy of Dr. Walking Dead, so stay tuned.”

        That’s great news. I’m a little light on my zombie movie background, so this will be a great excuse to correct that.

  3. I loved that you guys ended this episode with the Friday the 13th disco theme! A great ending to an episode that had me laughing out loud several times. It’s nice to know that the show doesn’t condone stalking.

  4. Just left a post and link to the show on Itunes on my facebook and will have the wife share it when she gets home from work since she has a ton more friends than I do…Jason is as Jason does…Once again great work guys!!!

  5. Great stuff again, guys…Can’t remember being in this much complete agreement with you guys on parts 2 through 4, which I believe is the series at its peak.
    I was actually watching F13 part 4 with the sound down low as I listened to this podcast. Even without the sound, Part 4 just looks and feels superior to the rest of the F13 films. It is a true shame that Paramount could never quite re-capture the feel of that movie, or get the quality of acting/directing. (We’ll discuss part 6 next week; this was a valiant attempt!)

    I really enjoyed the Crispin Glover diva story! That is one I was not aware of; all the more funny because he wasn’t even a star at that point. With personalities like this, I can’t imagine how frustrating the film-making experience must be at times.

    I also loved the riffing on Jason’s ability to get to San Francisco…Wolfman Josh is right: You can’t try to piece this story together. For a long time I tried; you have to just accept the continuity farce and enjoy the films. I actually think the character Rob, the guy in part 4 hunting for his sister, seems like the only person in the whole F13 universe that is aware of the history and has attempted to figure out just what the hell is going on. The scene in which he has the newspaper articles on the Crystal Lake killings is ironically exactly what we try to do as loyal viewers to no avail.
    All of these franchises chuck logic so far out the window when trying to propel the story . Yes, the Halloween sequels are also guilty of this – (See Halloween part 5 especially with the old man’s hut scene!), but F13 is by far the worst!

    You guys also help me finally pinpoint what is really wrong with Part 3…the pointless and nonsensical “in-between kills” stuff. I always just looked at that movie and said “Wow, terrible acting/dialogue,” but Josh you explained this well. It just doesn’t hold up like parts 2 and 4 do with the non-killing storyline.
    I will also agree, the end sequence for Part 3 was strange; even as a young viewer I was totally confused by Pam Voorhees emerging from the man-made lake.
    Hilarious discussion of the goofiness pf art 3 – The biker gang, Shelly’s “a whole word in his brief case”, the Tommy Chong guy…you all had me laughing out loud!
    I cannot wait to hear you guys attack Friday the 13th Part V – A New Beginning. That one and Jason Goes to Hell to are just so far off the wall and outrageous – I am excited for the snarky jabs!!!
    Great work again, guys I rally enjoyed it!
    Grey Imp

    • Thanks for your comment, Grey Imp. I always enjoy hearing from you. And if I may say so (not that I’m any authority whatsoever), I can tell by reading your comment here that you have a very stable and healthy grasp of the Friday the 13th franchise…

      I agree with you and everyone who has said it simply does not make sense and is a continuity nightmare. I know. But I still feel this “unhealthy need” to make it work somehow in my own mind. ha ha.

      JOTD

      • Thanks, JOTD
        The “unhealthy need” is nothing to be ashamed of when dealing with “Friday the 13th” franchise…These movies are dumb fun now, watching them for the 100th time as a grown-up. But they do take me back to a time when movies used to actually scare me. I can’t get myself scared anymore about anything, but I literally could not finish watching these movies at night by myself back in the day. I can remember the exact point in each of them when I turned off the VCR and said “OK, I’ll finish this in the morning!”
        And you think your need to grasp/master this story was unhealthy?? Peep this – I actually attempted to build my own Jason shack/fort in the backyard when I was like 10 years old. I took old pieces of wood, logs, whatever I could find. I had one of those wooden hose wheel things turned over for a table, found old bottles and rags and put them everywhere. I never got to making the roof (or the Mrs. Voorhees head!!), but this was the peak of my fandom for the movies..Not that I ever intended to kill or harm anyone,haha, but I was SO fascinated with this shit..it was pretty unhealthy, and I’m not really ashamed to admit it. I love these crappy Jason movies for so many reasons! Not many people can understand it.

    • When we agree, we agree. Not sure how to respond, Grey Imp, except for “glad you liked it.”

      I will say, the idea of listening to the podcast while watching the movie with the sound down struck me as very cool.

    • Regarding the end of Part 3, I always interpreted Jason’s re-emerging from the barn and Mrs. Voorhees leaping from the water as the beginning of Chris’s psychotic break. This certainly fits with the closing shots, as we see her hysterically laughing as she’s driven off in the police car and Jason still laying on the ground, apparently dead, at the barn’s door. However, there’s no discussion of Jason Voorhees, Mrs. Voorhees, or the mythology surrounding the events at Camp Crystal Lake earlier in the film, so we can’t reasonably assume she knows of Mrs. Voorhees.

    • I’ll be back… ok I’m back. Yeah, Shannon is correct! I was on a skiing/snowboarding trip. It was my first time and I failed miserably at snowboarding, but did a lot better on skis. I did check the boards while on my trip, but all the hating from the wolfman really bummed me out, so I decided to take a vacation from the boards to clear my mind and rid my body of the anger… hahaha just kidding Josh. I actually think you make great points. I’m only an hour into the podcast, but Jason X needs to step up his game if he’s looking to throw down with you. I get where he’s coming from and I kind of want him to lay the smack down on you Josh, but you’re just analyzing these movies on another level, which is kind of pointless but fun, so I really appreciate your efforts. I like how everyone is trying to make sense of the continuity, plot holes, etc. so I’ll try to pitch in to see if we get anywhere. In the end though, I think we should just sit back, pop open a beer, and enjoy the ride.

      • Just a quick point on snowboarding. I’ve been doing it since I was 13 and was a snowboard instructor for 2 years … It is much harder than skiing at first, but much easier in the long run. With skis, you can stand up your first day and have some fun. With snowboarding, you’re going to be falling down and miserable for about 3 days. So, it’s usually a hard thing to pick up on a single trip to the slopes, but you can progress so quickly on a snowboard and get really good once you know the basics. Other people ski their whole lives and never get past intermediate. I know it’s easy for me to recommend it when I spend most of my time close to the snow, as compared to you down in Texas, but if you do find yourself on an extended ski vacation, you might want to try snowboarding again. I find it to be a lot more fun overall. If you are someone that is going to go once a year or less, skiiing is probably the way to go.

        • Nice! Thanks Josh, I will take that into consideration. You’re right, I was pretty miserable. I’m not sure that I can go more than once a year, especially because I don’t have a lot of friends that would be interested in going with me. For now, I’m concentrating on getting back in shape. Putting on the snowboard is not fun when you have a beer belly in the way haha.

        • Welcome back Juan. I hope you had a great time in the snow. I’ll drink this Norwegian Spruce IPA and think of you on the slopes.

          And Josh, does the ability to skateboard have any effect on ones progress as a snowboarder? Or would I be just as prone to pratfalls and slapstickery as the next guy?

          • Hey thanks David! I could’ve sworn I read “I’ll drink this Norwegian Spruce IPA and think of you topless” haha… wishful thinking? *cue in Josh’s recurring joke*

            I’m intrigued by this Norwegian beer. Is it as black as their metal? I don’t think I’ve had a Norwegian beer. Time to change that!

            About the snowboarding, I’ve had friends that waterski and wakeboard that their experience with those sports didn’t really help them on the snow. I’m assuming it will be the same case with skateboarding, but that’s just some guy’s assumption with no experience in any kind of extreme sport.

          • Haha wow! I just killed the English language. Well, I think you get the gist of what I was trying to say.

          • ““I’ll drink this Norwegian Spruce IPA and think of you topless”

            That might not be what I typed but it was what I was saying in my heart.

            And oddly my Norwegian Spruce IPA wasn’t actually a Norwegian beer. It’s brewed in Suffolk but is infused with the flavour of Norwegian spruce trees. I got it from a shop we have here called Marks and Spencers, which is kind of like a department store for rich old people, but I’ve discovered that the specialist beers they stock are surprisingly good and not badly priced. This one was no exception though aside from it being one of the most geographically confusing beers ever. An India Pale Ale which most people assume is an Indian type of beer but is in fact of British descent, brewed using Norwegian ingredients in a county of England. I know you generally seem to like your beers stouty and dark so what are your feelings toward IPAs?

          • This might disappoint you, David, but I’m not a big IPA fan. I’ve tried many times to get into them, but they’re too hoppy and lack the full body and flavor of other beers. There have been a couple that I’ve really enjoyed, but they’re so different from the usual IPA. These two IPAs are from Dogfishead’s 75 and 120 minute IPAs. If you haven’t tried them, I highly recommend them. 120 minute IPA in particular is such a treat.

          • @Juan – You should try Sculpin by Ballast Point. It’s my favorite IPA. It’s more grapefruit than grass/pine. Quite tasty and easy to drink. There are a bunch of DIPAs that I would recommend, too, but you probably wouldn’t like them if you’re not into IPAs.

          • I see that all the time, Dino. Next time, I’ll pick it up. Thanks for the recommendation and if you have more let me know. I’m always open to experiment.

  6. Man, recording up until 2 a.m. is unbelievable. Knowing him, he probably had to work the next day. I appreciate the sacrifice, Doc!

  7. Gentlemen,
    Thank you for putting these episodes together. I was impressed with the Halloween episodes and so far your take on Friday the 13th is right on track with that content.

    As a horror fan I don’t really have any franchises that I am drawn to. If I had to pick a franchise that I am endured to it would probably be Friday the 13th (although Halloween is quickly moving up in ranking for me). Like most franchises there are some great flicks in the series and there are some (probably too many) terrible flicks. Part 5 is an abomination IMO (and Doc’s as well). You asked to rank our favourites so here I go:
    1) Friday The 13th Part 2: I can’t recall if I saw this once before the first one, but it is the one that I have seen the most. I remember buying a VHS copy of this move back in the 90s. It was the only one that I owned and I watched it until the tape nearly wore out. I loved it. Looking back at it now with a more critical eye it still holds up. I love the setting and it just has a more ‘camp’ (literally as in camping in the woods) feel to it. There is actually a camp fire and the classic camp fire story in this film. Josh mentioned Amy Steele and her place in history as one of the greatest final girls of all time and I agree 100%. The kills are next level and Jason is creepy as hell with a final reveal of his deformed figured and in slow motion no less. I love it!
    2) Friday The 13th Part 1: This is a movie that is no without its faults (why are Mrs. Voorhees hands so hairy) but it is also a lot of fun. The story is a simple revenge tale and we don’t need to worry about whether anyone is a zombie or how they came back from the dead.
    3) Part 4 and Part 6 (Tie): I won’t go into too much detail here, but they are both fun movies that deserve to be pulled off the shelf every once in a while and enjoyed.

    Josh thank you for bringing up Twitch of the Death Nerve (AKA: Bay of Blood). I was a little disappointed that it took until the second episode to do so, especially considering how much you discussed the influence of Friday the 13th in episode 1. In my mind Bay of Blood (1971) predates most slashers and was a very strong influence on F13. Anyone that knows me, knows that I am a big fan of this film and I see it as one of the earliest slasher films. It lacks the story arcs commonly used in what we now refer to as slasher films, but it has the kills…boy does it have the kills. I cannot say enough good things about Bay of Blood. If you have not seen it already…please seek it and out watch it. Kino Lorber has a beautiful Blu-Ray that I highly recommend.

    I also enjoyed the comments made about franchises and how companies go about putting them together. Josh you are 100% correct again in saying that most franchises come about after a film has been made and it is successful. Very few franchises are fully planned and very few tie together neatly. Most franchises have terrible, non-sensicle entries that drive the viewers nuts. If I had to point to one franchise that did it correctly it would be Saw. There is a story line that runs through from Part 1 to the end. I’m not naive enough to think that this was all planned from beginning to end, but after part 2 I think that they figured out their story line and mapped it out from that point and still included important details from the previous films.

    That’s enough ranting from me. Watch Bay of Blood and enjoy!

    The Dude.

    • Dude! I love your comments, but the one about Saw really threw a wrench in my gears haha. I really like the first Saw, but I hate the franchise. If there is a franchise that is all about the money, it’s Saw. And I don’t know about planning the story after part 2. To me the story was put together like a game of build-a-title. The whole thing is so convoluted! I’m not sure if the franchise will ever be covered here, but I’d like to know where everyone stands. Anyway, no disrespect to your love for the Saw movies.

      As far as Bay of Blood, I’ve been wanting to get to it really bad ever since the proto slasher episode. I’m bumping it up the queue!

      • @Juan – I tend to agree with The Dude on his take of the SAW franchise. The over-arching story line is highly convoluted and contrived, but there does at least seem to be a reasonably continuous and consistent story that would suggest those overseeing the franchise sat down at some point and deliberately mapped it out.

        • Damnit Dino! Just when I was starting to like you… haha. I mean, if you’re only talking about the continuity, sure, it’s pretty convincing if you don’t think too hard about it, but it does have it’s fair share of holes. There’s a chance it could’ve been mapped out like you guys said, but I’m sticking to my original statement that it was put together by playing a game of build-a-title or in this case build-a-story.

          • @Juan – I don’t know that I agree that the story has holes. It is absolutely possible they put the story together as they went, but there at least seems to have been some respect paid to what came before. The story is definitely outrageous and not always believable, but it is consistent in its outrageousness throughout the franchise and continuous throughout. (from what I can remember, at least… I last watched the entire series about a year ago)

            That said, I agree with what The Dude said. I’m also not suggesting the SAW franchise sets the standard by which all subsequent horror franchises should follow. But, it does seem to be a good example of a horror franchise that built a cohesive, consistent, and continuous universe.

          • p.s. I see what you did there^^. I can imagine the SAW writers sitting down to plot out the next installment in the franchise and saying “I want to play a game… of build-a-story.”

            Ok, maybe that was a bit of a stretch…

          • Hahaha that was completely punintentional, but thanks for having confidence in my wordsmithing abilities. It’s almost like you completed my puzzle …

    • Excellent comments, Dude.

      I’m a Bava fan and I got TWITCH OF THE DEATH NERVE for Christmas so I revisited it and you are totally right. It would have been a great inclusion in our “Proto-Slasher” episode.

      You’ve actually convinced me to try out the SAW franchise as well, which I’ve never given a chance based on the first film.

      • Folks I’m not recommending that everyone run out and watch Saw. I’m not saying that it is the best franchise out there because I don’t believe that to be the case. What I am saying is that, whether it was planned all along, or the writers of the subsequent films just did their homework, the entire series flows very nicely. The “universe” that they created was respected all along. Yes it is complicated and contrived, but at the end I always found myself saying ‘ahhhh…that makes sense’.

        In my opinion they are worth a look but I recognize that they will not be up everyone’s alley.

        D

        • I’m not a huge fan of the “Saw” franchise (though I do think the first one is a great horror flick) but I definitely agree with you that they handled the continuity in that series surprisingly well. It’s certainly convoluted but the writers obviously put a lot more thought into it than we’re used to seeing in these horror franchises.

  8. Long time fan and these review are awesome. The debate is really fun. As much as I’d like to agree with JOTD on his continuity attempt I just don’t see it as I re-watch the movies. Clearly they were making up his character as they went along — the “dream” boy in the lake (who looked burned), the “invisible” Jason in Part 2 (hardly see him), the Part 3 guy who ran around like a regular person with a mask on, and the Part 4 guy who started to standardize and become more like Michael Myers in his movements.

    One question I have is why the hell there are so many machetes — are they anywhere close to a jungle? They are laying around in barns, at camp, etc., and that “bear hunter” guy has a tent full of weapons but hears a sound and grabs … a machete!

    Keep it up guys. Really an awesome podcast.

    Graham

    • I’m glad that someone called him out on this. Part 2 is one of, if not THE strongest film in the series.
      But what do you expect from a Halloweenie! :)

      D

    • @Snowy Otter, Part 2 is an interesting film, I love the final girl and I love the setting BUT … it’s very existence is actually ridiculous and I don’t like this version of Jason.

      It’s a fun film. I own it. I said this a “strong rental” recommendation. I didn’t say “avoid it” or anything. I’ll get to that later with some of Juan’s favorite films in the franchise.

    • And a 6/10 for part 3 which is such a fun movie. It’s crazy. Especially considering that Josh once gave “Halloween: Resurrection” a 9.5/10 or something.

      • I think Josh has some great and valid points and even though his scores seem a little low to me, I still agree with most of what he has said so far. I’m not one of the crybaby fanboys that he keeps poking with a stick—though I am a fan of this franchise and of Jason—so his criticisms about the films don’t hurt me at all. I do think that he’s being a little harsh overall, especially when you consider how lenient he was with some of the crappier Halloween movies (of which I’m also a big fan of). The thing is that he won’t ever accept this to be true, just like he’ll never accept that Halloween: Resurrection has no redeeming qualities. But I like that he’s sticking to his guns, just like I like that Jay keeps putting him on the spot haha. Good times! I’m loving these episodes.

        • Well I’m only pulling his chain really. Although this is my favourite of the big horror franchises I’m not about to deny that it’s incredibly flawed. Even so I think it’s less uneven than the Halloween movies but that’s partly because the first Halloween is a way higher quality movie than any of it’s progeny and any of the Friday movies.

          Ultimately, rewatching some of these “Friday the 13th” flicks I have found myself noticing more faults than before but they’re just more fun to me than most of the Halloween sequels. I think the reason I find this franchise and all it’s flaws a little easier to swallow is because theirs less tonal dissonance than Halloween. Something like Jason X is kind of crappy and dumb but so are all of these movies in their own charming way while the original Halloween is almost like a deadly serious art film so when that franchise gets over-the-top ridiculous it seems far more offensive to the memory of the original and far more out of place to me.

          • That’s some great ammo to use against Josh, David. I do think that the first F13 is also a serious movie, though not on the same level as Halloween. But yeah, the rest of the sequels are clearly more single minded and goofier by the sequel. Like Billchete said in the first episode: these movies were not meant to be analyzed. But I really truly appreciate the fact that everyone is going above and beyond to give meaning or connect dots that may or may not even be there.

          • The first Friday the 13th is pretty serious in tone but it also feels far more exploitative and less artfully crafted than Halloween so even though it’s continuity doesn’t fit perfectly with the following movies it’s tone does.

  9. Wow, I love Roger Ebert and all but listening to the excerpts of his Final Chapter comments in this episode he really comes across as a sanctimonious jerk who’s taking things waaaay too seriously. I hope that’s not how I sound when I express my lack of appreciation for torture porn.

  10. Josh made a few comments just before this episode was released seemingly pre-emptively setting us up for disappointment but lord knows why because this was another great podcast. You guys have some incredibly thought provoking and fascinating discussions here and it was a joy to listen to and really got me thinking about elements of the franchise that I’d never even considered before. I will say I wish you’d all had a chance to elaborate a little more on the details of Part 4, but we all already know that it’s the best movie in the franchise anyway so not to worry!

    And I loved Josh’s point near the end about parts 4 and 6 feeling the most like “Jason movies”. I totally agree with that, in fact I’d say 4 and 6 come closest to what my warped childhood mind imagined these films to be before I’d even seen one, when all that fuelled my imagination were images in the TV guide of a gross looking hockey guy with a knife. They are the quintessential 80’s horror icon movies.

    P.S. I remember hearing about that Hawaiian “Beetlejuice” sequel too but I seem to recall that the concept was purposefully awful and ridiculous because whoever was asked to do the movie (Tim Burton maybe?) didn’t actually want to do it, sabotaging it’s chances of seeing the light of day with a totally stupid premise.

  11. Also regarding the competition; I don’t really use any social networking sites anymore for personal reasons and I also don’t use i-tunes. I might have asked this before but is there a way for me to just go on the i-tunes website and write a review for you chaps or do I have to sign up or something. Please be patient with me, I once mistook a Casio pocket calculator for a cutting-edge new cellphone design.

    • I’m not an interwebs expert, but I think you have to have an itunes account in order to leave reviews. I’ve been trying to leave a review for MPW forever but I can’t remember my password :/

      • But what would the setting up of such an account entail? Will it mean I have to endure some annoying i-tunes schlock coming up on my computer whenever I try to play a media file? If it’s just a case of filling in a few details and using an email address and password then I’m fine with that.

        • I think it’s the latter. I never ever use itunes and it’s never popped up automatically, unless you open up a music file, but you can always change the default player in your computer, in which case it will leave you alone for the rest of eternity.

    • It been so long since I started my Itunes account…I believe you download the program then you sign up…after that you can do whatever then just uninstall it and you don’t have to deal with it again…My itunes review is under crazywacfunk….Jay liked it so much he even read it on an episode…This is when I knew this was the place I belonged…

  12. Thank God I’m on Josh’s side with this Halloween/Friday debate…He’s kinda getting scary with wanting to kill people…I’m worried for Jay cause Josh can get to him pretty easily…Don’t want him coming after me cause theres no way for me to run away in my current condition…I pray nobody dies before this whole franchise review is finished…

    • Shannon did you ever listen to the infamous “Song of the South” discussion over on episode 79 of MPW? Now that’s some scary stuff!

        • Michael ten times out of ten! He is pure evil. There’s no reason behind his actions. He’s just an unstoppable killing machine with no real weaknesses to speak of. Jason may be bigger (about the same size if you go with Rob Zombie’s Michael) and has a longer range weapon, but he’s afraid of water. The Freddy vs. Jason movie should’ve always been Michael vs. Jason. They were meant to fight. Freddy was mismatched in my opinion.

      • Whooooooaaaa!!! Did you just call Friday the 13th a lesser slasher or a lesser slasher than Halloween? I wholeheartedly agree with one of those statements. I’m not sure the rest of the gang will take kindly to either haha. GO!

    • @David – I’ve been hounding Wolfman Josh about The Sci-Fi Podcast. This is what he had to say…

      >Wolfman Josh on February 21, 2015 at 1:47 am said:
      “I’m working on the website, Dino. It will eventually be at TheSciFiPodcast.com, but I’m traveling for work this week (and it was a last minute trip) so it may go up later than sooner, unfortunately. We will definitely be announcing it on HMP and probably MSC and MPW as well. Also, for Mattroid fans, he’s coming on to cover JASON X with us in two weeks. Should be fun.”

        • Thanks for the excitement guys. I hope you’ll be regular listeners and commenters for us too.

          The first show is coming very soon, with the second being recorded this week. The site, like Josh said, is almost ready a well.

          I can’t wait to have the show, and I can’t wait to once again be a guest on the HMP!

          • @Mattroid – Sci-fi is a very close second to horror for favorite genre of mine. So, just don’t suck and you’ll have me as a regular.

          • I can’t speak for everyone but I’m sure a good few of us will be definite regulars Mattroid. I was a big sci-fi nerd way before I ever saw a horror movie so it’s a genre close to my heart.

            Within a few months you’ll probably be trying your best to get rid of us though! Josh and Jay have tried everything from purposefully posting episodes horrendously late to openly mocking me and Juan’s budding internet romance. Josh even went so far as to give “Halloween: Resurrection” a score of 11/10 and to declare Busta Rhymes the “Unequivocal and Illustrious Queen of all Final Girls” for his performance in that movie. Unfortunately for Jay and Josh none of these tactics have worked and we’re still as dedicated as ever.

            You have been warned!

          • I’m with these guys. I hold sci-fi almost as dear to my heart as I do horror, and when they’re together, even better. Alien is one of the first horror movies that I watched and one of my favorite movies of all time, so yeah, I think we’ll get along just fine.

          • Juan, is it me or do they just not seem to be making sci-fi horror movies any more? It’s such a sadly small sub-genre already and it doesn’t seem to be getting any bigger. If Wolfman Josh ever does make that Bigfoot movie I hope he sets it in space.

          • I think you’re right, David. I believe the last great sci-fi horror that came out was Jason X, but there might be others. Event Horizon?

            Josh, it seems, hates space, so I’m not sure if he’d be willing to venture out there. But I’m crossing my fingers.

            Another even smaller subgenre that doesn’t get much love is underwater horror, which I suppose is a sub subgenre of sci-fi horror. I’m in need of these things desperately!

          • Haha, well I don’t know if I’d personally go quite as far as saying that “Jason X” was a “great space horror” but I guess it does some fun things with the sci-fi premise and I do love “Event Horizon”. “Pandorum” was mentioned a few weeks ago and that’s another one that’s a decent watch and I guess “Prometheus” has some horror elements but that’s kind of a stretch. We’re going back about two decades here (Event Horizon was sort of mid-to-late 90’s if I recall) and it’s slim pickings indeed. I guess it’s just way cheaper to make these sort of flicks in a more grounded setting. If anyone has any suggestions for sci-fi movies that are very dark and horrific please let me know!

          • I think it depends on what you classify as sci-fi horror, too. Would you call THE MIST sci-fi horror, because I think that’s a pretty fantastic film and it’s relatively recent (2007). DARK SKIES (2013), THE LAST DAYS ON MARS (2013), APOLLO 18 (2011), and SPLICE (2009) were all better than average, I thought.

            Of course, I agree that none of these are on the same level as EVENT HORIZON, but I still think they’re rather decent offerings in the sub-genre (and I would argue THE MIST isn’t too far off).

            All this sci-fi horror talk has me in the mood to watch AVP: REQUIEM. No, seriously…

          • Haha I was joking about Jason X… ok half joking. I remember Pamdorum being pretty good and I actually like Prometheus a lot and I would consider it sci-fi horror. It’s not for the “hardcore” horror fan, but that movie’s got a creepier atmosphere than most of the movies these fans can throw at me.

            Dino, I agree that classifying movies as sci-fi horror can be tricky. If we go by the definition “fiction based on imagined future scientific or technological advances and major social or environmental changes”, then a lot of movies that I wouldn’t consider sci-fi would be sci-fi. Let’s stick to the movies you mentioned. For me Dark Skies is straight horror. Even though it has the alien element, I don’t think enough is shown or talked about to warrant a sci-fi label. Apollo 18 is not sci-fi because it takes place in the past. Yes, a sci-fi can take place in the past, but there needs to be time travel involved. The Last Days on Mars is sci-fi, but not a good entry in my opinion. Now Splice, YES! That is a great example, I can’t believe I forgot it and even Josh reviewed it not long ago. The Mist is a tricky one because it’s a movie that doesn’t show you much, but the events that transpired happened because of some crazy science. Still, it doesn’t feel sci-fi. I hope that Matt can go deep into what sci-fi means, what classifies as sci-fi and so on.

            I don’t know, what do you guys think?

    • All,

      The scifi/horror subgenre is one of my favorites and will most certainly get it’s time on the show. One of the best things about science fiction is that it touches so much, so many genres. It’s difficult to decide what to do and when to do it because there is so much. I’d be happy to do three shows in a row about scifi horror because there are some greats to cover…and we will cover them all in time…but like the HMP it’s gotta be spread out and appropriately appropriated. Or something.

      Event Horizon will be coming up before too long; I haven’t seen that in over a decade and I’m looking forward to revisiting it. the Alien series–my favorite film series in all of movie history–will be covered in great detail, including the wonderful (and wonderfully conflicting) Prometheus.

      Anyway. High-fives for all the hype and excitement. We’ll do our best to deliver nothing short of greatness. With Josh producing and contributing from time to time, a mix of awesome hosts and some terrific guests, I can’t see it being anything less than great.

      Also, I would kill every last one of you Vorhees style for a taco right now. Sad, but true.

      • Yeah, this taco business has me intrigued.

        You bloody yanks don’t know how lucky you are. The last time I had any decent Mexican food that I didn’t make myself was probably about 6 years ago.

        • Me? A bloody yank? You must be off your trolley mate! Are you on the piss again? Hahaha sorry, David. I always wanted to do that just for kicks, but I probably just embarrassed myself. Anyway, what about you with your fish and chips and your spotted dicks? I’m actually pretty ignorant of British cuisine, but I’m sure it’s replete with many great dishes. I’m not aware of any restaurants here that serve authentic British items, but I’ll make it a point to seek one out and see what I’ve been missing.

  13. Holy fuck!!! I’m sitting here right now listening to a wrestling podcast about last nights WWE PPV and one of the callers is Willis Wheeler!!! What a small crazy world we live in!!!

  14. Both F13 shows so far have been fantastic. It’s nice to hear people back up and validate my own thoughts on 4, considering that it’s the best of the lot.

    When I was a kid I had always heard that Tommy takes over for Jason because he goes crazy and believes he IS Jason, and while that doesn’t happen (and kind of almost did) it still sits with me while I watch it, and something about that conceit is comfortably frightening. So even though the 4th movie is not typically considering first, it always will be for me. They are all good through. And even though I know Wolfman loves “Jason Takes Manhattan”, and I get it, I have to admit it’s pretty bad.

    F13 is not high art, it’s not cinema and it’s not a powerful metaphor for anything, really. But it is and will always be lots of fun, tons of hooting and hollering and rewatching yearly.

    Friday is too far away.

  15. In my opinion 2, 3 and 4 are my trilogy. That’s all I need, the rest of the franchise is just fun movies to watch. To me Jason was at his scariest in part 2 due to the deformed hillbilly redneck vibe with the added positive of the burlap sack on his head. Such a stunning look and overall scary mood. As Jay said, he
    was lanky and fast. Just plain scary all around.
    Once we hit part 3, I credit this movie to my love of horror and what burned a section of my brained that left Jason as my childhood hero. To me this movie represents Jason best, as a lumbering hulk of a mutant man. As for the whole “rape” sequence that may or may not have happened I don’t look that much into it and take it for what it is.
    On the trail of part 3 we have pt. 4 and again this just solidifies what 3 brought to the table and just cements Jason’s foundation in horror film history. Regardless of the inconsistent look of his face, he still brings the menacing hulking deformed mutant vibe and is just like an unstoppable force rampaging through these kids putting the final stamp on my trilogy. “Some pack of patootsies”

  16. Guys I submitted an I-tunes review under the name “Davidwise the Clown” (A nickname by which I believe The Dude once referred to me) but it didn’t come up in your reviews section straight away so I don’t know if it worked or not? Does it take a while to show up or something?

  17. Pingback: Movie Podcast Weekly Ep. 126: Hot Tub Time Machine 2 (2015) and McFarland, USA (2015) and The DUFF (2015) and the 87th Academy Awards |

  18. On top of the top movies and top kills, I think we should also come up with a list for top characters and top hotties. I’ll work on my hotties list first 😉

  19. I don’t know if anyone has mentioned or seen this but I just got done watching “His Name Was Jason: 30 Years of Friday the 13th”. It’s an interesting retrospective about the Friday the 13th franchise. The best part… Tom Savini hosts it. It was a nice little addition to go with the podcast.

  20. Hey guys, great episode. I had to go back and watch all four films after listening to this and I totally agree in that Part 1 would be a great standalone film. That is my favorite, and then it would be Part 3, just because Jason finally get’s his iconic mask, plus the kills are awesome. The Final Chapter is my next favorite in that I love how Tommy Jarvis is a huge horror fan such as all of us.

    What actor has been your favorite Jason so far?

    • Richard Brooker all day. RIP
      Hodder is so overplayed in my opinion. I get it he does the whole heavy breathing and everyone goes ga ga for it, but I think Brooker did it best in my opinion. The way he walked and looked around to me was how it should be.

  21. So are Halloweenies the equivalent of Star Wars* fans and Frideenis (I don’t know, help me here) the equivalent of Trekkies?

    *What do you call Star Wars fans anyway? Jedi?

  22. As I lay here in my WWJD (what would jason do ) t shirt emblazoned with the iconic mask, I gotta say part 3 is a major MAJOR favorite of mine. There’s something about Shelly I can relate to, and I find Chris to be one of the more real and attractive heroines in the franchise. Not to mention the lack of nudity makes me a lot more comfortable watching with my wife lol as if she’s watching it with me anyway. Seeing the iconic mask for the first time, the terrifying shot of jason in the window as Chris is in the boat, the way she screams “NOOO” and then laughs maniacally while being taken away by the police, still is a bit more disturbing to me than most people give it credit for. Part IV is definitely my fave, I’m a big fan of Corey Feldman and honestly think this is some of his best work, I love the characters of Trish and Jimmy and the kills are realistic and phenomenal!!! I like the sleeping bag kill and the frozen face smash but a simple throat slit or machete to the face when done right is great to me and much more terrifying especially the look on Cris Glovers face while the blood poured down, it looked sooooo painful!!! I give part 3 8/10 and IV 8.5/10

  23. i haven’t read the other comments in this section so this might be retread over a discussion that is ancient history, but i am just listening to the ep now and i have to comment on what jason voorhees might be/coninuity from the first to the seond movie. if jason is a draugr it makes sense. he fits the wikipedia definition, which while not necessarily canonical, fits for our purposes here i think.

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