Horror Movie Podcast Ep. 074: Freddy vs Jason (2003) and A Nightmare on Elm Street (2010) and Never Sleep Again: The Elm Street Legacy (2010) and Listener Franchise Overview — Part 5 of 5

ANOES 5 of 5bHappy Halloween! It is the eve of every horror fan’s favorite holiday: October 30, 2015, which also happens to be the anniversary of the launch of The Weekly Horror Movie Podcast, back in 2011. Welcome to our fifth and final episode of our NIGHTMARE ON ELM STREET FRANCHISE coverage. You’re listening to the one, the only HORROR MOVIE PODCAST, where we’re Dead Serious About Horror Movies… You’re damn right.

This is Episode 074, and in this show, we bring you brief discussions of Freddy vs. Jason (2003), which we have already covered back in HMP Ep. 046. We also briefly chat about the documentary Never Sleep Again: The Elm Street Legacy (2010). And as promised, we bring you an in-depth, Feature Review of the infamous remake of A Nightmare on Elm Street (2010).

Naturally, during our franchise wrap-up, we bring you some great listener feedback from the HMP community, and we wrap up with some relevant and timely horror convention stories with special guests Ron Martin of The Resurrection of Zombie 7 horror podcast. We hope you have a happy and safe Halloween! Thanks for listening.

By the way, if you’re unfamiliar with HMP’s franchise reviews, you can hear our approach to previous franchises, as well, including our reviews of the Halloween films back in October 2014, the Friday the 13th films back in February of 2015, and the Scream films last month.

Horror Movie Podcast is a weekly show that’s released every Friday. If you’d like to support our show, please subscribe to our podcast free in iTunes, and leave us a review! And remember, we love getting your voice mails, so call in with more recommendations and comments at this number: (801) 382-8789 Thanks for listening to Horror Movie Podcast!

ANOES Below the Fold Slate
SHOW NOTES:

I. Introduction
— Wolfman Josh’s thoughts on Freddy’s Dead and New Nightmare


[ 00:13:04 ] II. Mini Review: FREDDY VS. JASON (2003)
Jay of the Dead = 4 ( Avoid )
Wolfman Josh = 5 ( Rental )
Dr. Shock = 5 ( Rental )
Willis Wheeler = 10 ( Buy it! )
Chris Robo = 5 ( Rental )


[ 00:22:07 ] III. Feature Review: A NIGHTMARE ON ELM STREET (2010)
Jay of the Dead = 7 ( Buy it! )
Wolfman Josh = 7 ( Strong Rental )
Dr. Shock = 6 ( Rental )


[ 00:56:15 ] IV. Mini Review: NEVER SLEEP AGAIN: THE ELM STREET LEGACY (2010)
Jay of the Dead = 6 ( Rental )
Wolfman Josh = 6 (Rental)


[ 01:04:49 ] V. Listener Feedback Franchise Overview


VI. Wrap-Up / Plugs / Ending


[ 02:39:20 ] VII. Listener Campfire Tales


[ 02:51:53 ] VIII. 2015 HorrorHound Nightmare on Elm Street Convention in Indianapolis, Indiana, with Ron Martin


JOIN US NEXT FRIDAY ON HMP: Episode 075: The Green Inferno and Cannibal-themed episode


NOTE FOR NEWCOMERS: If you love this podcast, there are 36 episodes of two other great podcasts that precede this one. Just scroll back through our archives, or use the links in the sidebar on the right.

Leave a comment or e-mail us here: HorrorMoviePodcast@gmail.com

LINKS FOR THIS EPISODE:

Links for Ron Martin:
Listen to The Resurrection of Zombie 7 horror podcast
Ron Martin on Facebook
On Twitter: @ResZombie7
The Resurrection of Zombie 7 on iTunes

Hear Joel Robertson’s Spooky Flix Fest coverage for Halloween!

And don’t miss Ron Martin’s The Resurrection of Zombie 7 podcast’s Halloween coverage!

Wolfman Josh’s links:
Follow Josh on Twitter: @IcarusArts
Josh covers streaming online movies on: Movie Stream Cast
Follow MSC on Twitter: @MovieStreamCast
Like MSC on: Facebook

Dr. Shock’s links:
Dave’s daily movie review website: DVD Infatuation.com
Follow Dave on Twitter: @DVDinfatuation
Like Dave’s DVD Infatuation, now on: Facebook
Dr. Shock also appears on this horror podcast: Land of the Creeps

Jay of the Dead’s links:
Jay of the Dead and Horror Movie Podcast Official Twitter: @HorrorMovieCast
Jay of the Dead covers new releases in theaters on: Movie Podcast Weekly
And if you’d like to e-mail Jay of the Dead with a good Beastly Freaks recommendation: BeastlyFreaks@gmail.com

Dr. Walking Dead’s links:
Pre-order Kyle’s new book! How Zombies Conquered Popular Culture: The Multifarious Walking Dead in the 21st Century
Order Kyle’s previous books American Zombie Gothic and Triumph of The Walking Dead
Follow Kyle on Twitter: @DrWalkingDead

You can always contact us by e-mailing HorrorMoviePodcast@gmail.com. Or you can call and leave us a voice mail at: (801) 382-8789. And you can leave us a comment in the show notes for this episode.

Special thanks goes out to singer-songwriter Frederick Ingram for the use of his music for Horror Movie Podcast.

If you like Horror Movie Podcast, please subscribe and leave us a review in iTunes. If you want to support the show, we have PayPal buttons on our sister site, Movie Podcast Weekly.com, in the right-hand sidebar where you can make a one-time donation or you can become a recurring donor for just $2 per month. (Every little bit helps!)

Thanks for listening, and join us again next Friday for HORROR MOVIE PODCAST!

68 thoughts on “Horror Movie Podcast Ep. 074: Freddy vs Jason (2003) and A Nightmare on Elm Street (2010) and Never Sleep Again: The Elm Street Legacy (2010) and Listener Franchise Overview — Part 5 of 5

  1. I just wanted to give a hearty thank-you to the HMP crew for dedicating October to the Nightmare series, particularly when it wasn’t exactly the most appealing idea for them. I imagine whenever there’s a full coverage of a franchise, it takes far more work than your average string of podcast episodes. The fact that you guys did this so soon after finishing the Scream franchise is even more incredible.

  2. great show so far guys. Jay, i wonder if the word you’re looking for when talking about 80s cinema is “veneer”? i get what you mean though. aesthetically, there’s a quality to older horror films that gets lost in translation today. i really wish i could’ve made the cast on NOES 1, because i do really enjoy the film, and, to use it as an example, there’s a certain slightly degraded quality to that film that adds something i can’t quite put my finger on. it’s film reel, and not digitally captured like most of the movies today. it’s difficult to explain what makes it work in the older films, but perhaps it’s more easier to explain why it wouldn’t work today. i think if a film maker were to use the same techniques in ultra hd digital capture, it’d look hokey and cheap. but rewatching the older films today (i just saw Carpenter’s Halloween on IMAX last night for the first time on the big screen – incredible), it’s like a… for lack of better term, an instagram filter effect that translates really well. i echo Sal’s comments, i think these retrospectives you guys do are really great. You should do Texas Chainsaw Massacre franchise (i use the term loosely) next time go round.

    • Hello Everyone! I scanned all the comments to make sure I wasn’t repeating anything regarding the “80s” feel of the original movies. Redcapjack addresses it lower in the comment thread as well.

      There probably is a word for what we’re feeling as viewers and it might be “jaded.”

      At this point in time, we all know everything there is to know about any of the iconic movie monsters. The first time we all saw the original NOES, it was “the first time” we were seeing it and everything was filtered through fresh eyes and all the concepts were new. As learned and dedicated horror movie viewers, we are already privy to Freddy’s origin, his ret-con origin, his various alternate versions, and all his stated or implied characteristics.

      The last thing I’m going to say is what makes a re-make good is how well it’s performed. I’m going to use the anecdotal example of Shakespeare plays. I love Shakespeare and have seen many performances of Hamlet (my favorite is Macbeth, btw) and some of the interpretations were mind blowing! There have been specific productions that I have tried to see as many times as possible because it was so enjoyable even though I know the story by heart. The last professionally performed Hamlet I saw was so unpleasant, I left at intermission, not not only because of the production quality, but with the audience’s reactions. When Polonius, Ophelia’s dad, gave his famous advice speech to his son Laertes, the text of the whole play implies Polonius is a sly, devious sycophant. The audience laughed like crazy because of their “Gilligan’s Island” knowledge of the speech. I don’t know how this audience reacted to the actual comedic scene (the gravediggers after Ophelia kills herself) because I had left in disgust.

  3. Some thoughts on the two movies:

    Freddy Vs. Jason – I think it’s safe to say this was the most anticipated film of either series. I liked the basic plot of Freddy needing Jason to instill fear into the teens to allow Freddy to gain power again. It’s a simple, yet effective way to connect the two series together. Far better than some of the other ideas that were considered at various points in the decade that it took for the movie to be made. I liked some of the Nightmare scenes with Freddy doing what Freddy does best. They built it up nicely so that you’re pumped for the actual fight to finally begin. Ultimately though, I don’t think the movie worked too well. I love Brendan Fletcher, so it was easy to like the character of Mark. The problem is I didn’t like any of the other teens. I truly hated how the writers gave both killers a phobia, neither of which makes any sense if you’ve seen their sequels. Jason afraid of water? Yeah, I totally saw that when he regularly went into the water to kill horny teens in the Friday sequels. If this is Robert Englund’s final time as Freddy, I’m glad he finally got a chance to mix it up with Jason. As it’s true with even the worst Nightmare sequels, Englund was one of the few highlights.

    The Remake – First and only time I saw Freddy in the theater. Just to go against Jay’s belief that nostaglia not only is the only reason why people love the original and why they hate the original, I’ll say up front that I liked several things about the movie, despite not being an actual fan of the general movie. I thought Freddy was scary in the flashbacks when he was playing with the kids. It was uncomfortable due to how believable those scenes came off. Freddy Krueger, dream killer, may be fictional, but Freddy Krueger, real life pedophile? That’s real. I’m a big fan of Kyle Gallner. His normally droopy eyes made him a perfect casting choice for the movie. I loved the idea the concept that if you stay awake for too long, you’ll end up having day dreams. So now you can’t even avoid falling asleep. You will deal with Freddy. With that being said, Rooney Mara wasn’t very good and I would have preferred to have the Kris character as the main girl instead. I know people love him, but I hated Jackie Earle Haley as nightmare Freddy. He didn’t have the right size and he didn’t seem to relish in messing with the teens. For Englund’s Freddy, he got off on playing mental games with his victims. Haley’s Freddy? Seemed bored by it all. While they did some things right with this movie, with a new Nightmare eventually coming out without anything to do with this version, I’m annoyed that they felt the need to remake Nightmare when this remake will have zero ultimate importance. I would have much preferred to see another Englund Nightmare, even if it means it’s not really connected towards another movie in the series. Basically, a reboot without technically remaking anything.

    Based on Jay’s colon picture at school story, should I be under the impression that Jay isn’t allowed in schools anymore?

    Jay revealing that he’s never met Dr. Walking Dead got me thinking, how much in person interaction has Jay, Josh, and Dr. Shock had?

    • Not much. As mentioned before, I interviewed Jay for Cleanflix, but it got cut. I saw him again several years later at a movie theater. After MPW started, we did commentaries for 3 films at Andy’s house, all went to dinner once at a pizza joint, and went over to a listener’s home theater for two movie screenings. Then, I didn’t see Jay for about two years until he came over to my house for a barbecue this past August after I got back from Colombia. It was busy and I was hosting so I only got a chance to talk with Jay and his wife for about 2 minutes. Literally.

      I’ve never met Dave. Never even SEEN Dave, aside from a Facebook photo or two.

      I’ve hung out with Karl and Andy quite a bit. Andy and I were working on a screenplay together for awhile and he’s come out to my Film Society events. I’ve hired Karl to act several times for corporate crap I had to do for $ and for a few of Mattroid’s Gary the Unicorn sketch videos, years ago. I also bought a TV from Karl and he came over to help me install it.

      Overall, very little in-person contact. In fact, I’ve met a couple of listeners more than I’ve met Jay. Kinda weird if you think about it…

      • And just to round it out … never met Ry. Never met Kyle. Met Liz several times. Have known Matt personally for decades. Have know all of the MSC co-hosts personally for decades, except for Cody, who I have only met twice. Rachel knows Matt and William really well and has met the whole MPW crew a couple of times.

        And, of course, Jay has know Karl and Andy personally for a decade.

        I don’t think Jay has ever met Dave, Ry, Matt, Liz, William, Willis … Oh, wait, William went to a Dead Snow 2 Sundance screening with the whole MPW crew, so they’ve all met at least that one time. I had assumed Kyle and Jay knew each other going way back. That really surprised me.

        • I imagine you’ve met Rachel once or twice too.

          To be honest, I’m surprised at how little you and Jay have been together in person. You two have this chemistry that comes across as if you’ve been close friends since you were young.

          It does highlight how unusual podcasting can be. Where in most cases, the listeners have met the hosts just as many times (Zero) as the co-hosts have met each other. For some, you can tell they don’t know each other well, but for other co-hosts, it comes across as if they’ve been friends forever.

          • Well, yeah. I was counting Rachel as one of the MSC co-hosts, but I suppose she is also my wife.

            It is weird. Jay doesn’t think it’s weird, but it often strikes me as weird.

            The only difference between how well you know Dave and Kyle and I know Dave and Kyle are the pre and post show chats and the occasional text and email. But I’m a big fan of both of them and follow their work off HMP as well.

            Dave, Kyle and I are slowly writing a zombie screenplay together (just over email and the occasional Skype call) and Dave and I are working on another horror script. Plus, me and Andy are plugging along on ours. I’ve attempted to do some extracurriculars with Jay in a few times, but to no avail. I have a lot of irons in the fire …

          • “I’ve attempted to do some extracurriculars with Jay in a few times, but to no avail.”

            Dino, alley-oop!

          • This conversation is the perfect segway to… THE HORROR MOVIE PODCAST LISTENER REUNION! Coming in 2016…? No cream? Ok no cream.

        • I remember when I first started listening to these podcasts I somehow got the impression that Josh and Jay had been real life friends going back to high-school. I think it was partly because they live in the same general area but also because they interact and bicker like a pair of friends simultaneously close enough and at odds enough to be brothers.

  4. New Nightmare is the best of the series, while I & III trail slightly behind.

    Have loved it since seeing it opening night as a naive high school senior.

    However, I rank this series far behind Friday, Halloween, & TCM.

    Thanks for the in depth analysis over the five episodes.

    Happy Halloween, fellow horror fans!

  5. While I am not against remakes I think the Nightmare on Elm Street remake is one of the worst. And I don’t believe it has anything to do with my love of the original; for instance,”Fright Night” (1985) is one of my all time favorite horror films and I liked the remake just fine.

    Like most of the Platinum Dunes remakes, the whole thing just feels so poorly structured. The problem I have with Dunes more than anything is that their films always feel more like a bunch of bits put together than an actual movie; the structure of all of their films is just so wonky. The Friday remake is probably the worst offender with three different act ones following each other for the first thirty minutes of the movie. However, I still prefer the Friday remake over the Nightmare (and yes, some of it has to do with perfectly placed nipples). Not everyone has to follow Robert McKee, but maybe a little more focus on story wouldn’t be a bad thing.

    I have no issue with Mara (she’s a better actress than Langenkamp) or Haley (you could argue he’s a better actor than Englund) but they just don’t seem to have the same chemistry as the original actors/characters did. Having Freddy not only being a pedophile but also taking advantage of these children he haunts was just a lame idea. Kudos for trying something different, but this was not a great course to take.

    I’d give it a 3. It looks pretty good and most of the acting is fine – really wish we could get more of Katie Cassidy in films. But it just was not effective for me on any level.

    I do love the franchise overviews. Would love to see you guys doing some director retrospectives as well. A Dario Argento or William Castle (I’m sure Doc would be down) retrospective would be a lot of fun.

    And if you need to go biweekly again please do. HMP every two weeks is better than none at all. Appreciate all the hard work you guys put in to make this podcast. Every time I see I have a new download around Friday I’m always hoping it’s HMP.

    Happy Halloween to everyone.

    • Yes guys, a biweekly show is fine! You all have so much going on that needing a break is totally understandable. I will miss hearing you every Friday, but fortunately I have an archive of episodes to tide me over. Thanks so much for all you do!

  6. I have an issue with jay of the dead…how the heck can u be sick of reeses after only eating four of them? I buy the 12 pack & the 14 piece bag & eat them all at once…seek help immediately lol

  7. Freddy vs Jason was just kinda, whatever, to me. I was 13 when it came out but I talked my dad into takin me and a couple friends to see it. Needless to say there was a lot of high fives and elbow ribbing during the skinny dipping scene in the beginning. Freddy was back to his part IV antics, which I didn’t care for. The one scene I really love is when Brendan Fletcher’s character is killed. As far as the acting, some was good, some was just awful (Kelly Rowland). One line that just irks me is “we’re not safe awake or asleep”. I always bought that line was ridiculous, if you’re not safe when you’re awake, how would a nap make you any safer?? Anyway it has its moments. 6.5 rent it

    The remake
    Sorry but the whole, “he was a pedophile, no wait he wasn’t really, but oh yes he was” got old soooo quickly. It’d be like a Chucky movie where they say “oh he possessed a doll, but no he didn’t, actually he did”. This characters been around long enough there is no mystery there. The actors look way too much like Abercrombie and Fitch models and more like a Hollywood characiture than a real person. Some acting may have been slightly better but I just can’t get into this movie. I like Jackie Earle Haley but his Freddy just does not scare me. He’s basically Rorschach with what looks like wet paper towels on his face. The cgi was jus…no, just no. Robert can be scary although it may be hard to see it with all of Freddy’s goofiness throughout the series. I’m not a fan of remakes at all anyway. TCM was decent, Zombies Halloween was interesting, and I’m actually a huge fan of a Evil Dead, but even if I enjoy a remake I can’t help but think, “why even make it?”. The Thing was understandable but these days when the only reason to do it is to reboot a franchise that was once popular is just trying to milk our nostalgia and possibly trying to make as much money as the old franchise. Not just remaking movies but turning old shows into movies. Never thought I’d see a Smurfs movie this day and age. Now Jem and the Hologramms is coming out, and Goosebumps is in theaters. While I am going to go see Goosebumps I understand what the whole purpose of making it is. 3.5 and avoid, because I do like some remakes, but this was sorely un needed.

    Never sleep again. I absolutely love it. So much behind the scene details and great stories put together in a very tight and entertaining way. I actually bought my copy from Heather Langenkamps website that came with the autographed poster. I’ve seen the other retrospectives from Halloween and Friday the 13th and I think this one has soooo much more to it. Granted most of it is on the DVD, but I own “his name was Jason” and it doesn’t have nearly as much on it, plus it’s all chopped up into different categories whereas this one is movie to movie. I haven’t seen Crystal Lake Memories so I can’t compare those two. Very interesting and very entertaining. 7.5 BUY IT

    Thanks for reviewing my favorite franchise guys. I know it was taxing but hopefully you’ve found some gems you didn’t realize you enjoy. Sure this series has some pretty low points, but wether it’s Halloween: Resurrection, Jason Goes to Hell, or Sees of Chucky, it’s safe to say that over time the creativity and effort is going to wane. To me the Mose entertaining and enjoyable franchises are

    A Nightmare on Elm Street
    Friday the 13th (very close behind)
    Evil Dead
    Halloween (specifically 1,2,& 4)
    Childs Play
    TCM
    And many more behind that.
    Thanks so much for covering it guys, can’t wait for the next batch!!!

      • No clear death but the events leading up to it, the confrontation with Freddy, the image of Freddy laughing as his back lights up, and the slashes across the face make this scene a definite highlight as far as Freddy’s concerned in this film

        • Yeah, actually kind of terrifying if you consider that they just watched some kid get slashed up in front of them and they couldn’t see any real attacker. And they’d already heard about Freddy… that was actually kind of terrifying.

  8. In regards to freddy vs jason…it mostly stinks & is a huge disappointment…i saw it the 1st 2 weekends it was number 1 at the bix office & absolutely loved it but when i bought the dvd i hated it mostly…it was poorly made for one & 2 examples are at the beginning of the movie jason stabs a girl into a tree well u can clearly see her body going in the air b4 the machete even touches her & when the kids dad head fell off u clearly see the actor stop his arm b4 it even gets near his head then cuts to the next scene…jason sucks in the film in regards to the horror moments cuz he wasn’t scsry at all & he looked stupid was too tall & wearing a fucking jacket like wth did jason get cold one night killing someone smh plus he didn’t act like jason cuz at the beginning of the movie he kills the bf in bed then clearly jason knows someone is in the shower & he doesn’t even go after her like wth at least have him try & swipe at her with the machete & she ducks or something but no too dumb for that & then he just disappears like he wasn’t even there….freddy was & just looked ok & he only kills one person & that death scene sucked totally…also i absolutely do not want a freaking pop star in my horror movies ever…the only thing i absolutely loved is the beautiful monica keena & the fight scenes between freddy & jason are fucking awesome…i do absolutely love the freddy vs jason soundtrack which is a great hard rock/metal album!!!

  9. The nightmare remake is a hot damn mess . The cgi is bad . The acting sucks big time . Freddy looks like kremit the frog . I don’t like the fact they was trying make Freddy to be framed at first . Go listen to own nfw podcast . We break down it in our commetries

  10. Am josh u are wrong about the never sleep again doc , it was sold by itself from the website of the makers of the movie . It’s not of any of the sets .

  11. Listening to this podcast as I type this- and I’m listening to the Wolfman talk about what works in this film and the little bit of a discussion regarding the thing that is missing from this film. And I’m glad that Jay was trying to avoid the “nostalgia” term, because he’s absolutely right- it’s not nostalgia. And it’s not necessarily something we only find in the 80’s, because there are those movies today- and the best term I can come up with is “whimsy”. There’s a sense of whimsy that is missing from this film- and I don’t mean that in a silly way, but in the manner of creativity. There are film makers today who still bring that same sense of whimsy to their films- that spark of creativity that exists a little beyond the scope of the technical aspects in film. Some of the directors who I think tend to capture that sense are Adam Green, Rob Zombie, and Eli Roth. They may not be the best films made, but their movies have an endearing quality that inspires the creation of a solid fan base. And, while we have some good technical aspects in the Remake, this film is completely manufactured from start to finish.

    My own thoughts regarding the remake are going to be a bit harsh- but I’m going to start with the good stuff that I did enjoy regarding the film. Specifically, Freddie Krueger himself. He’s dark, he’s demented, and there’s still that sick sense of humor. Jackie Earl Hailey’s performance is top of the line- he delivers the goods and goes for the throat with his opportunity to wear the glove. Some of the base story really makes sense, the stuff where the kids are trying to stay awake are fantastic, and that’s where the “good” ends for me because the film did lag in the center and the new Nancy was unbelievably horrible in her performance as “requisite goth teen artist” just felt so bland and uninteresting.

    One of my biggest problems with the film is that we never understand the stakes- we never see what life is like for the kids outside of this situation. They are immediately being haunted- they are looking for answers, they are investigating, they are trying to stay awake, but we never ever get that establishing moment that shows us that these kids are anything more than the cookie cutter victims they need to be in order to get from point A to point B. We never understand why none of the kids remember their incidents from childhood, what the long term effects of that experience have been, or what life is like outside of this one incident. The mood remains so consistent and constant that it feels a little like water torture- it’s just a constant drip that starts off a little annoying and then remains so consistent throughout that it just makes me angry.

    Now, regarding the “remake” concept in general? I have not been a huge fan of many remakes- but I was particularly looking forward to this one because I did see so many faults in the original that I thought could have been addressed and improved upon. But the film didn’t do that- it only attempted to manufacture a film that would capitalize on nostalgia. I had a similar feeling with the Texas Chainsaw remake (though not as deep) and especially with The Fog remake. People dread remakes because of that “manufactured” quality the studios tend to gravitate toward- the idea that a film should be cast with “X” actors, should have the flavor of the month jump scares, the right tint because another movie with that tint did well, et al. and etcetera. The original films still exist and I would rather show my friends The original The Texas Chainsaw Massacre or Oldboy or Let the Right One In than any of the films remade in recent years. There’s absolutely no reason to show anyone the shot by shot “Psycho” remake when the original is so readily available. HOWEVER- I will gladly put the Evil Dead remake right next to the original and I will gladly show “The Thing” over “Thing from Another World”. Re-interpreting stories is nothing new and it can be great or it can fall flat on its face- I, myself, work in community theatre which is all about interpreting work that’s been done before. From Shakespeare to Tracy Letts, we put shows up on a stage and it’s never really going to be exactly the same as another theater’s interpretation. Whether Macbeth pointing to an actual ghost or a ghost within his mind is where we find the differences and where those differences can be the most intriguing. In general, my thoughts on remakes are that if you are going to tell a story differently than do it DIFFERENT and try to keep me interested.

    REGARDING MONSTERS: A child’s predilection toward monsters goes back much further than Sesame Street- Sesame Street may be the first broadcast media that capitalized on it, but monsters have been successful with children since Grimm Fairy Tales and likely earlier. Kids idolized Dracula, the Mummy, and Wolfman along with the Witch, the Wolf, and the Evil Stepmother. I think Freddy fits so perfectly into that mix that it’s really a no-brainer that he became such a pop-icon. He’s literally the boogie man made form in cinema.

    Over all, I enjoyed this retrospective look back at all the nightmare films and really enjoyed the overview. I had a lot of fun watching all the Nightmare films this past month in my 31 Days of Horror and my ten year old son thinks that Freddy sucks and uses too many bad words and he’s glad that Jason kills him. It was funny trying to wait for him to sleep so I could watch these movies but found myself letting him sit on my lap more often than I probably should have while he cuddled with me and laughed at Part 5, part 6, and Jason vs. Freddy. I got a kick that so much of what I wrote got read on the air and wish you all have very pleasant dreams in the near future.

    • Fun read. Not sure if I necessarily agree with all seven of their points, but I like a lot of what they were saying. Thanks for sharing the link, Wolfman.

    • 7. Freddy’s Dead
      6. Freddy’s Revenge
      5. Dream Master
      4. Dream Child
      3. New Nightmare
      2. Dream Warrior (My favorite though)
      1. ANOES

      The remake would probably be in the middle somewhere.

      • Nice list. I feel like this franchise, more than any of the other big horror franchises, is open to having very different rankings from person to person.

        • Maybe, but I think there will be a general common consensus where the rankings could be shuffled up, but the majority will have a top three of 1, 3, and New Nightmare and a bottom four with the others. The order of those two halves, particularly the bottom half is anyone’s guess.

          • I don’t necessarily agree with that statement. We’ll see… if anyone else posts their rankings, that is. I’ll throw mine up in the next day or two.

          • I’m not saying everyone will have it like that, but majority? Seems like a safe bet. Chances are, everyone is going to have the original ANOES in their top 3 right? Dream Warriors seems like a safe bet too. New Nightmare seems to divide people here though.

            With that being said, my heart has been breaking with all of the Freddy haters on this site. So being a fan of Freddy, maybe I’m not the best to come up with predictions with how the rest will rank the series. Ha.

          • I was always a huge fan of the original, but never really considered myself a Freddy fan. This latest re-watch of the franchise has changed that for me, though.

          • 1. A Nightmare on Elm Street
            2. Dream Warriors
            3. Dream Master
            4. New Nightmare
            5. Dream Child
            6. Freddy’s Revenge
            7. Freddy’s Dead

            Honestly, the last three are just awful and I could go either way but Dream Child’s biggest problem is that it’s just dull; Revenge is insanely weird (not in a good way) and Freddy’s Dead is just a mess.

    • Guys, I love this franchise and it pained me to not have participated a lot more than I did. BUT, here are my rankings as a consolation prize:

      1. A Nightmare on Elm Street (10/10)
      2. A Nightmare on Elm Street 3: Dream Warriors (9/10)
      3. A Nightmare on Elm Street 4: Dream Master (9/10)
      4. Freddy’s Dead: The Final Nightmare (8/10)
      5. Wes Craven’s New Nightmare (7/10)
      6. A Nightmare on Elm Street 5: Dream Child (6/10)
      7. A Nightmare on Elm Street: Freddy’s Revenge (6/10)
      8. A Nightmare on Elm Street (remake) (6/10)
      9. Freddy vs. Jason (5/10)

      I revisited these last year so they’re kind of sort of fresh in my mind. I’m not 100% confident about my scores except for numbers 1-5, those are pretty much final.

    • 1. Nightmare on Elm Street (original)
      2. Wes Craven’s New Nightmare
      3. Dream Master
      4. Dream Warriors
      5. Freddy Vs. Jason
      6. Dream Child
      7. Freddy’s Revenge
      8. Remake
      9. Freddy’s Dead

    • The NIGHTMARE franchise is one that I liked well enough before, but have really come to appreciate more with this HMP franchise dissection. In fact, I really kind of love this series now, and hope the upcoming 2016 version re-ignites the franchise. As for the movies themselves, this is how I rank them:

      1. A NIGHTMARE ON ELM STREET (1984) – 10/10
      2. A NIGHTMARE ON ELM STREET (2010) – 8/10
      3. A NIGHTMARE ON ELM STREET 4: THE DREAM MASTER – 8/10
      4. A NIGHTMARE ON ELM STREET 3: DREAM WARRIORS – 8/10
      5. A NIGHTMARE ON ELM STREET 2: FREDDY’S REVENGE – 7/10
      6. NEW NIGHTMARE – 7/10
      7. FREDDY VS. JASON – 6.5/10
      8. A NIGHTMARE ON ELM STREET 5: THE DREAM CHILD – 5.5/10
      9. FREDDY’S DEAD: THE FINAL NIGHTMARE – 5/10

  12. My list would be as follows:
    1. ANOES
    2. New Nightmare
    3. Dream Warriors

    The rest are just sort of there. These were really the only three I liked. Not a huge fan of the franchise but I enjoyed the coverage.

  13. Some rapid-fire comments on the franchise overview/listener comments part of the episode:

    – Someone already said it (maybe Fritz in the comments? Sorry, can’t remember), but the nightmare series is unique among slashers in that it doesn’t punish the morally questionable. The victims are innocent children, not the sexually promiscuous, substance using teens found in F13, Halloween, and other famous franchises. That’s interesting and horrifying, and really hits JOTD’s principle that horror happens to those who deserve it the least. It’s also funny that Craven goes against this in his “3 rules of horror movies” in SCREAM.

    – Jessica’s “cheap home Security” comment with the Freddy poster in her bedroom window was hilarious.

    – Regarding Dr. Nightmare’s comment referring to the commonly seen shadow man, I love the idea of Freddy as the shadow man. He’s very often shown in silhouette in the movies, like a shadow man, and his shape/shadow is iconic.

    – JOTD, just to answer your question during the nostalgia discussion: I’m one of the anti-nostalgia camp who really likes the remake. That’s right, I really like the remake.

    – “John of the Dead,” thank you for sharing your amazing story. Know that you’ll always have friends to discuss horror with on here.

  14. I’m really glad JOTD and Wolfman Josh enjoyed the 2010 remake because, judging by the comments in the community in the episodes leading up to this one, I thought I would be the remake’s lone supporter.

    I think the remake got a lot of things right. I’m a fan of the darker, more depressing atmosphere this movie takes on. Everything, from the depressive characters to Freddy’s portrayal and even the color palette, is more serious and dark. I also really liked Freddy’s backstory in the film. Not just the part where we see how he became the Freddy we already know, but before the lynching when we see his interactions with the school kids and the discovery of his secret room in the school basement. I think it gave more meat to the story behind Freddy and these kids.

    Another credit to the film was the acting and, in particular, Jackie Earle Haley and Rooney Mara. I really dug Haley’s portrayal of Freddy. He was very creepy, dark and scary, and has the perfect meager stature. Also, importantly, his delivery of the Freddy quips was perfect; he struck the perfect balance between sarcastic humor and a dark, seriously menacing tone. Englund’s Freddy is iconic, but I think Haley’s portrayal was the perfect way to bring Freddy back to a darker place in our current landscape. JOTD mentioned not liking his voice, which is funny because my wife said the same thing to me when we were watching the movie. His voice turned her off because “it didn’t sound like Freddy.”

    I also really liked Rooney Mara’s performance as Nancy. She’s received a lot of flak, on both the show and in the comments, for a seemingly “flat” performance. However, we have to remember who this character is. As we learn in the film, she is the victim of sexual abuse from childhood, memories that she’s repressed for most of her life. This certainly would have influenced her general mood, personality, and even her appearance; compare Nancy to her mother, their behavior and appearance is so different that they don’t even seem to be related. I think Rooney’s Nancy was perfect. Her blank, detached and dark portrayal is believable from a character who has been repressing memories of sexual abuse as a child for years.

    The film certainly had its issues, though. I don’t disagree with what the guys were saying about the dream sequences being less successful than in the original film. I think part of the failing of the dream sequences was Freddy’s lack of fantastical abilities (which I think JOTD mentioned on the show). That’s definitely an element that should be present in any NOES film. But I really like how the film uses daydreams, and plays with the notion of not knowing what’s real or a dream as the movie progresses.

    I agree with Josh about the opening scene being pretty terrible; it’s probably one of the weakest in the franchise. There are elements of it that I liked, though. I like how we just jump into this really odd scenario, with this mostly empty diner that never really feels right. That’s sort of how dreams are; we just appear in a given situation out of nowhere. I also like how it cut from the dream to reality during Freddy’s attack, and we could see this guy just slash his own throat. But, yes, generally not a very good opening scene. I also didn’t like that there were several scenes (and shots, specifically) that were essentially a one-to-one re-tread of the original, and some of the CGI was pretty sub-par (Freddy coming through Nancy’s bedroom wall was the worst offender). And, in general, the movie didn’t seem to have any real love or emotion behind its creation. I know that’s sort of a flimsy remark, but it definitely seemed more studio-produced than director-created.

    I also wished they used the original theme song and Freddy nursery rhyme more. Seriously, I think they both added a lot to the original films in the way of atmosphere and creepiness.

    But, overall, I really like this movie. I don’t think it’s as successful as the original film, but I enjoy watching it and will probably re-visit it from time to time.

    —–

    Quick question for JOTD (that he’ll probably never see): one of your criticisms of the remake was the lack of fantastical dream imagery (which I agree with), but then you mock the original film’s inclusion of certain fantastical dream elements, like the long Freddy arms. Was it just the execution of the effect that you didn’t like in the original?

  15. Hi all, this is an extremely late-to-the-game comment I’m leaving here. I wasn’t active on the message boards during the franchise reviews of NoES or Friday the 13th, so I thought I’d just dump my single biggest pieces of feedback here to sum everything up.

    First, I can genuinely say that I have separate but equal love for both of these franchises. I have a special place in my heart for the original Nightmare on Elm Street, but I also adore the typical fan favorites of both franchises. The only films I really dislike are Nightmare 5 & 6 and Friday 5 & 9. The rest I love, like, or at least get a kick out of. Also, a little tidbit is that I didn’t see a single one of these films until 2004. No joke! I also was born after the 80s, so I’m largely nostalgia free.

    I want to compliment the hosts hugely on their attention to detail and hard work in both franchise reviews. Watching all of these films is a marathon even when you weren’t doing it on a deadline. It can be exhausting and maddening to watch them back to back. The research that was done was enlightening and fun to here. I learned a lot, and it added to my love of both franchises. The hosts clearly put in a ton of effort to keep these puppies organized. I especially loved the Friday the 13th podcasts. I can honestly say it is some of the strongest podcasting I’ve ever gotten to listen to. The Dr. Shock vs. Billchete showdown in the Jason Takes Manhattan review might be my number 1 favorite podcasting moment ever. It’s genius!!!

    My main feedback on Nightmare on Elm Street franchise review is a little less enthusiastic. Right off the bat I could tell the hosts, especially Jay, really didn’t have the same fondness here as they did with Friday the 13th. Which is fine, but I was saddened to hear how much criticism and how low of reviews the few great films in the NoES franchise got compared to the few great films in the F13 franchise. I think it just goes to show that it’s impossible to be subjective on film criticism.

    I found it frustrating that a film like Friday the 13th part 3 gets an 8.5 (buy), which I think is a fair rating even though it has a weak plot, weak characters, not exactly seamless effects and some terrible acting; when A Nightmare on Elm Street part 1 gets a 7 (rental) and gets criticized for bad acting and unconvincing effects. I love both of those films, but honestly, the original Nightmare on Elm Street is, if not at least a stronger film, deserves to be judged on the same rubric that Friday the 13th part 3 was. The most frustrating part about those ratings is that I have a strong suspicion that it boils down to a desire for horror to be set in the real world. It’s as if the film needs to adhere to personal preferences before we’re willing to examine it on it’s strongest merits. This is just a single instance. This happens several times throughout where problems are overlooked in Friday the 13th and Nightmare on Elm Street is nitpicked because of a distaste for Freddy and the supernatural. I wish that all the hosts could have focused more on what Wes Craven created in the first film instead of dwelling on the character of Freddy. It would have been a lot more fun to hear the same passion that there was for Friday the 13th instead of sounding like they were doing a chore.

    Anyway, thanks again for the shows. This podcast is something that I’m so incredibly grateful for. It has reinvigorated my love for horror on a whole new level.

    final snark…. The take away from this is just to stop listening when Jay starts to rate a supernatural horror film or I’ll go insane. After all, this is the same guy who rated The Haunting (1963) a 4 (avoid) and The Conjuring a 5.5 (rental). …. I’ll get you for that Jay of the Dead!

    • Great comments, Kagan. I like how you said you have “separate but equal love for both of these franchises.” That sums up my feelings nicely, as well. And your comparison of JOTD’s ratings for Friday the 13th Part 3 vs. A Nightmare on Elm Street was a real eye opener; I imagine those ratings point more directly to subjective appreciation of the films rather than objective analysis (which is completely fine, of course).

      Have you gone back and listened to the Halloween franchise review episodes yet? It is not my favorite of the main horror franchises, but I think it’s the best of the HMP franchise reviews.

    • Thanks for the feedback, Kagan. It was unfortunate that none of us happened to be fans of NOES fans, but the listeners were demanding the review, so we did the best we could … even Jason. Haha.

      Personally, I thought I approached it with a very open mind. At least, I tried.

      I also tried to gets several fans of the franchise on those shows as guests, but things kept falling through and it definitely wasn’t as fair as I’d hoped. Including a bunch of listener feedback is attempt to remedy that as well.

      I realize that us being down on the films takes away from the fun. Sorry about that.

      My last comment is that, try as we might, sometime our reviews just aren’t that consistent, year to year. Honestly, I think I’d lower half my scores for the F13th if I were to do it again now. We take it very seriously, but it’s ultimately all subjective.

      (BUT, hold on, didn’t your recent research on the ratings show the opposite of this?! That NOES actually scored higher?)

      Thanks again for the feedback. We hate to disappoint. That’s why I personally don’t want to review Chucky or Pinhead movies, but I will do my best to find plenty of fans and experts when we eventually do.

      • Thanks for this comment back Josh!

        You know, I will personally commend you in your work here, and really should have recognized above that you at several times mentioned how much you had actually enjoyed the films even a couple of the lesser ones like part 2. I also noticed that you rated the most objectively across franchises, and ultimately gave a lot more credit to Wes Craven and the premise where the actual genius in this particular franchise actually exists. You F13 average was 5.86, and your NoES was 5.83.

        It’s a trendy thing around here to call out Jay for stuff, but he truly, unknowingly or not, invites the criticism with some of his more audacious statements, and everyone knows which statements I’m talking about in the NoES franchise review.

        Oh, and yes, my recent research confirmed that Friday the 13th is the more appreciated on this show having received higher ratings overall. My surprise was that NoES franchise scored higher than I had remembered, which I was pleased to see. My dismay is really nitpicking and wishing the original Nightmare would have gotten more love.

        Anyway, I’m over it now 😉 and moving on to Halloween franchise again!

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