Horror Movie Podcast Ep. 071: A Nightmare on Elm Street Part 2: Freddy’s Revenge (1985) and A Nightmare on Elm Street 3: Dream Warriors (1987) – Franchise Review Part 2 of 5

ANOES 2 and 3 Artwork

Happy Halloween this month, and welcome to HORROR MOVIE PODCAST, where we’re Dead Serious About Horror Movies. Even Freddy ones… This is Episode 071, and it is the second installment of our five-part NIGHTMARE ON ELM STREET FRANCHISE coverage during October 2015. In this episode, we delve into some wacky and wild analysis of A Nightmare on Elm Street Part 2: Freddy’s Revenge (1985) with special guest ChrisRobo of the Rotten Rantings horror podcast, which has now become the Casual Encounters comedy podcast. And we also bring you a rip-roaring review of A Nightmare on Elm Street 3: Dream Warriors (1987) with special guests Mattroid and STATION from The Sci-Fi Podcast.

If you’re unfamiliar with HMP’s franchise reviews, you can hear our approach to previous franchises, as well, including our reviews of the Halloween films back in October 2014, the Friday the 13th films back in February of 2015, and the Scream films last month.

And at our listeners’ request, we are tackling the entire Freddy franchise, including all seven core films as well as a bonus episode featuring discussion of the Platinum Dunes remake and touching on Freddy vs Jason. So, join us every Friday this October to help us celebrate Halloween with our coverage of the Nightmare on Elm Street series. Join us!

Horror Movie Podcast is a weekly show that’s released every Friday. If you’d like to support our show, please subscribe to our podcast free in iTunes, and leave us a review! And remember, we love getting your voice mails, so call in with more recommendations and comments at this number: (801) 382-8789 Thanks for listening to Horror Movie Podcast!


I. Introduction

[ 00:08:14 ] II. Feature Review: A NIGHTMARE ON ELM STREET PART 2: FREDDY’S REVENGE (1985) with guest ChrisRobo
Jay of the Dead = 6 ( Rental )
Wolfman Josh = 5 ( Low-priority Rental )
ChrisRobo = 5 ( Rental )

[ 01:03:14 ] III. Feature Review: A NIGHTMARE ON ELM STREET PART 3: DREAM WARRIORS (1987) with guests Mattroid and STATION
Jay of the Dead = 7 ( Strong Rental )
Wolfman Josh = 8 ( Buy it! )
Mattroid = 5.5 ( Rental )
STATION = 4 ( Stream it / Rental )

IV. Wrap-Up / Plugs / Ending
— Remember to let us know what your dream warrior power would be! HorrorMoviePodcast@gmail.com

JOIN US NEXT FRIDAY ON HMP: Episode 072: A Nightmare on Elm Street 4: The Dream Master (1988) and A Nightmare on Elm Street: The Dream Child (1989).

NOTE FOR NEWCOMERS: If you love this podcast, there are 36 episodes of two other great podcasts that precede this one. Just scroll back through our archives, or use the links in the sidebar on the right.

Leave a comment or e-mail us here: HorrorMoviePodcast@gmail.com


Links for ChrisRobo
Find Rotten Rantings (aka Casual Encounters) podcast here
On Twitter: @CencountersPod
E-mail: CasualEncountersPod ( AT ) Gmail ( DOT ) com

Mattroid’s links:
— Listen to Matt and Liz discuss sci-fi movies on The Sci-Fi Podcast
Hear the first Alien Anthology episode with guest Jay of the Dead
— Watch Matt’s Gary the Unicorn comedy sketches about things like alien abduction on YouTube
TeePublic Sci-Fi T-Shirts
The Sci-Fi Podcast on Facebook

STATION’s links:
— Liz says to subscribe to The SciFi Podcast on iTunes and Stitcher

Hear Joel Robertson’s Spooky Flix Fest coverage for Halloween!

And don’t miss Ron Martin’s The Resurrection of Zombie 7 podcast’s Halloween coverage!

Wolfman Josh’s links:
Follow Josh on Twitter: @IcarusArts
Josh covers streaming online movies on: Movie Stream Cast
Follow MSC on Twitter: @MovieStreamCast
Like MSC on: Facebook

Dr. Shock’s links:
Dave’s daily movie review website: DVD Infatuation.com
Follow Dave on Twitter: @DVDinfatuation
Like Dave’s DVD Infatuation, now on: Facebook
Dr. Shock also appears on this horror podcast: Land of the Creeps

Jay of the Dead’s links:
Jay of the Dead and Horror Movie Podcast Official Twitter: @HorrorMovieCast
Jay of the Dead covers new releases in theaters on: Movie Podcast Weekly
And if you’d like to e-mail Jay of the Dead with a good Beastly Freaks recommendation: BeastlyFreaks@gmail.com

Dr. Walking Dead’s links:
Pre-order Kyle’s new book! How Zombies Conquered Popular Culture: The Multifarious Walking Dead in the 21st Century
Order Kyle’s previous books American Zombie Gothic and Triumph of The Walking Dead
Follow Kyle on Twitter: @DrWalkingDead

You can always contact us by e-mailing HorrorMoviePodcast@gmail.com. Or you can call and leave us a voice mail at: (801) 382-8789. And you can leave us a comment in the show notes for this episode.

Special thanks goes out to singer-songwriter Frederick Ingram for the use of his music for Horror Movie Podcast.

If you like Horror Movie Podcast, please subscribe and leave us a review in iTunes. If you want to support the show, we have PayPal buttons on our sister site, Movie Podcast Weekly.com, in the right-hand sidebar where you can make a one-time donation or you can become a recurring donor for just $2 per month. (Every little bit helps!)

Thanks for listening, and join us again next Friday for HORROR MOVIE PODCAST!

128 thoughts on “Horror Movie Podcast Ep. 071: A Nightmare on Elm Street Part 2: Freddy’s Revenge (1985) and A Nightmare on Elm Street 3: Dream Warriors (1987) – Franchise Review Part 2 of 5

  1. I look forward to listening to the podcast, however I have doubts that Jay will like any of the following movies.

    Nightmare on Elm Street is actually my Favorite Horror movie franchise (tied with Evil Dead) because each movie tries something different. I’d rather see something try and fail then just a re-hash of the same movie over and over again. But frankly it’s also the most entertaining franchise IMO. I can also pretty much say the same thing for the Chucky franchiseé

  2. A theory I have on A Nightmare on Elm Street 2:

    Freddy’s Revenge does not have Freddy in it. I find that there’s even some pieces of evidence to prove that too. First off, Freddy’s face looks differently than it would in any other movie. I do really like the look though. It’s a lot more gross looking of a face. Then you have Freddy never using his glove. Instead, his knifes are just coming out of his fingers as claws. Freddy acts differently as well. He no longer has any cute one liners (Even if the original film didn’t have a lot), but he also didn’t toy with his victims at all. Even with the more serious tone the original had compared to the sequels, Freddy still loved to freak out his victims. Lastly, for whatever reason, “Freddy” needed to use Jesse to kill others. Why is it that Freddy couldn’t kill anyone himself? The simple reason is because it’s not Freddy. In fact, all of these discrepancies between this “Freddy” and the real Freddy points to the fact that Jesse doesn’t know what all Freddy really does. How would Jesse know that he toys with his victims? What about his burned face looking differently than it does in the original? Jesse tried to create his own Freddy, but he just didn’t have enough knowledge to make a flawless Krueger.

    Chances are Jesse found Nancy’s diary before Lisa did and hearing about these tales caused Jesse to create this dollar store version of Freddy in his head. Instead, it’s all just Jesse and his Carrie-like telekinetic powers killing people due to his internal struggle with being gay.

    • Well, this is the most bizarre, revisionist, apologist theory I’ve ever heard about Nightmare 2. I’m not sure I buy your evidence, but the idea is interesting and could fit with very little work on the filmmakers’ part. How cool would it have been if the filmmakers had run with this idea. Could have been really cool idea for an Elm Street movie.

        • It makes sense except that none of it is spoken, seen or hinted at in the film. Haha. Don’t get me wrong, I love it! It’s a better premise than the actual film. I just don’t see it in there.

          • Isn’t that what makes it a theory though? If they made it any more obvious that Freddy didn’t actually exist in the movie, it wouldn’t be a theory, but an actual fact of the film. Some of my main examples still stand though:

            – Freddy acts differently than he does in any of the other movies.

            – There isn’t a reason for Freddy to go after Jesse.

            – Everything with Jesse is never mentioned again in the sequels.

            – Freddy looks different, most notable with the lack of an actual glove.

            I’m not saying my theory is the legitimate truth, but enough examples make logical sense that there could be some basis for my theory.

          • I mean, it’s definitely a theory. It’s better than my Jekyll and Hyde theory. I just think it would be a stronger theory if you had more backing evidence. Jesse being gay is a theory and the is a TON of evidence to support it.

            But you’re also right that I don’t know these films well at all, so maybe I’m just missing something.

            So let me respond to your points with the very little Freddy knowledge that I have and you guys can tear me apart.

            1) Freddy acts differently than he does in any of the other movies.

            From what I’ve seen so far, Freddy acts differently in ALL of the movies. His M.O. is completely different in this movie, but it varies throughout the franchise and his personality does too.

            2) There isn’t a reason for Freddy to go after Jesse.

            That’s what I thought too until I saw The Dream Master. Apparently that was Freddy’s house, so they guy does haunt Elm Street and that house in particular, to some degree.

            3) Everything with Jesse is never mentioned again in the sequels.

            That’s not super-convincing to me. There are lot of that Freddy victims that we never hear a thing from again.

            4) Freddy looks different, most notable with the lack of an actual glove.

            Again, his look is always evolving in these films and I don’t know what you mean by “lack of an actual glove” as he definitely has his glove at the pool party scene and we see it several times throughout the movie.

            I’m not saying you’re WRONG about any of this stuff, it’s just a bit of a stretch is all.

            • By this point, I don’t know if the gay undertones is even a theory anymore. It seems like it’s nearly a fact. The only theory is how far it actually goes.

              For your points:

              1) Freddy doesn’t really act differently in every movie though. Take the comedy for example. He was doing some comedy and toying with Nancy in the original. All he did in the sequels was to advance it. Even though he ends up having more fun with his kills, it seems like an advancement from the original film too. Glen ends up being killed in a wet dream sort of death after the interaction with his mom when he mentioned that he didn’t care what those girls from the Miss America or whatever pageant he was watching would say during their Q&A session. Lastly, the further along we get in the series, the more success Freddy has had. He should have been killed off many times, but he always found a way to come back. It only makes sense that he gets cocky and is just looking to have fun rather than being more focus on the kills like he was in the original.

              2) Okay, it might be Freddy’s house, but in those other main movies of 1, 2-5, he’s always went after kids directly responsible for his death or using Kristin’s powers of bringing others in her dreams. He’s apparently never went after anyone who lived in his old house again.

              3) Pretty much everyone that matters ends up getting mentioned again. It seems like it’s a pretty huge deal for a kid in Nancy’s house to be attacked by Freddy and the whole fact that Freddy came out in the real world and attacked everyone in the party. Whenever we see those research scenes, Nancy’s dealings with Freddy is brought up, but never Jesse.

              4) I wouldn’t say there’s much of a difference between how Freddy looked in the original and how he looked in Nightmare 3-5. There are all of those scenes with the glove being absent and instead Freddy having knifes coming out of his fingers.

              There’s just so many discrepancies especially with Freddy using Jesse to kill others.

    • So, I’m joining the party kinda late, just discovered this podcast and I’m loving it! Few things I wanted to comment on amidst my binge listening:

      Regarding the sleep paralysis that had been brought up a few times in these NOES episodes, its something I have experienced a few times. The first time when I was 12 snd was brought on the night after I watched Robert Englund in Phantom of the Opera. To this day the most terrifying dream moment I ever had. But the Japanese legends regarding sleep paralysis, and the idea that if you die in a dream you will die for real, comes up a fair amount in their media and the best representation of the most common form of that legend is Catherine. A video game I highly recommend, btw.

      For the dream warrior power concept, I was unclear if we should select existing powers from the film or select your own……but, often in my actual dreams I can manipulate energy (ala Gambit ) and that is something I’d love to hsve in a battle against Freddy. If the intention was to select existing powers then I would definitely hsve Taryns powers. I attempted to find a picture and failed, but I did a cosplay of Taryn for Horrorhound one year, she was the coolest character of that film in my opinion.

      Final note, and I apologize if you’ve already done it in a prior episode, but I think the Sci Fi folks should rejoin you guys for a review of Event Horizon. I think that’s an incredible Sci fi horror.

  3. Really looking forward to this episode, primarily because Wolfman Josh mentioned enjoying (to his surprise) this latest re-watch of the franchise. Can’t wait to hear what he and the others have to say about 2 and 3.

  4. The painting The Nightmare is on permanently display at the Detroit Institute of Arts. My own particular recurring sleep paralysis nightmare starts with me in my bedroom and a light shining through a my closed bedroom door. I can’t move and then a guy with a bankrobber mask dressed all in black runs into my room with a golden sword. Then he runs at me and I wake up when he swings the sword down.
    I haven’t had this dream since I moved out of my parents house.
    My parents house actually sometimes shows signs of haunting that both of my brothers and I have experienced. Sometimes there’s clapping, sometimes stomping that moves through a room, or a loud crash like someone jumped up and landed on their ass on the hardwood.
    I didn’t like NOES2 until I heard about the gay subtext. After that, it was a whole new experience that was fun to dissect. My favourite scene is when Jesse is staying in Ron’s room. If you consider it symbolism then the way I interpret it is that Jesse has feelings for Ron and thinks he also might be gay. He comes out to Ron and Ron rejects him. Jesse panics and murders him. I feel like this was symbolizing the paranoia and panic that young gay men had in a homophobic era. The fact that the kill is so brutal and quick just serves to punctuate the betrayal. It’s not a fun kill. It’s dead serious.

    • Joe – Thanks for sharing your experience with sleep paralysis. Your few lines about your parent’s house displaying signs of a haunting sound like the beginning of a really good Campfire Tale.

      (Are we going to have anymore of ^^those^^?)

      • Hey, man. We’ll read Campfire Tales in the order in which they are received! Next time we do a Frankensteinian episode, I’ll gather them up.

        I’m going to save all of the sleep paralysis stories for our “Horror Documentaries” themed episode where we actually review The Nightmare.

        We’ll have to see if we can get Dr. Nightmare on that episode to clarify some things.

        • I find in my neuro classes that my students have disparate but interesting experiences w/ sleep paralysis. Very interesting idea for a podcast, it’s the closest most of us come to living through a Freddy type dream encounter. It feels real whIle it lasts.

          • Hey, if you can email us your info, we’d love to have you on for a bit of that episode. Just email Jay at horrormoviepodcast.com so we have your info and can contact you when we finally get around to that episode. Tell Jay I sent you because I’m never sure how closely he watches these boards.

  5. I’ve never commented before, so if I’m breaking etiquette please forgive me. But I’m a cognitive scientist and the discussion of sleep paralysis touched a nerved. Sleep paralysis originates from the fact that while you sleep, your body is paralyzed due to a dopamine circuit in the brain stem. Now sometimes the brain gets it wrong and wakes your systems up in the wrong order, thus your mind is awake (aware) but your body is still paralyzed. This is what causes you to feel like you cant move or breathe. (You can breathe, but it feels like you can’t due to the dopamine circuit.) Now your mind is trapped in this half awake, half asleep state that can lead to hallucinations. I suffer from sleep paralysis and saw an Einsatzgruppen soldier cave my brothers face in with a hammer. Vivid, violent hallucinations are common, so are the hag and the shadown man. But it’s due to your body waking up out of order. Not aliens or ghosts or some such thing, just the wonderous beauty that is the human brain.

    • Another mad Doctor. Just what we need around here. Actually thanks for commenting. We love audience interaction, even if it takes me blundering something to bring people out of the woodwork.

      Honestly, I hadn’t planned on discussing sleep paralysis at all until we actually reviewed “The Nightmare” for our upcoming “Horror Documentaries” themed episode and had planned to do a little more research before then. Jay just sprung it on me, so I DO apologize for having NO IDEA what I was talking about either this time or last. I was just regurgitating what I could remember from the documentary, which itself didn’t get into the medical side of things and focused on scary, subjective experiences. Obviously, I don’t personally believe it has anything to do with aliens or ghosts. But I do have an acquaintance who had this experience and considered it religious in nature, believing he had been attacked by an evil spirit. That fit right in with the folk approach of the documentary.

      Very much appreciate your comment, Dr. Nightmare. I knew there must be some scientist out here who didn’t think dreams were magical hocus pocus. I’ll read your comment on our wrap-up episode, if that’s okay with you. Thanks again!

      • Read away, though it is a bit more complicated than I made it sound. And what Jay of the Dead mentioned with regard to seeing giant bugs sounds like something other than sleep paralysis, but could be related to a sleep disorder. And I hope no one thought I was being dismissive of others beliefs about what sleep paralysis means. I was just commenting from the perspective of my cognitive neuroscience training. Hell, I believe aliens exist, just not on Earth.

        • I didn’t see it as dismissive. We love real science here. You should check out our physicist friend Brian (aka Brain) over on The Sci Fi Podcast. He’s written blogs for us about the real science of time travel and Ant-Man and he guested on our “Terminator Genysis and Time Travel” episode.

          • Thanks for the recommendation. I’m really liking what I’m hearing so far on The Sci Fi Podcast. Also, I sent my contact info to Jay as resquested. I have to admit I’m stoked to have the opportunity to contribute to my fav. podcast and talk, however briefly, about the infinitely fascinating topic of sleep paralysis.

      • The quality of the audience is a direct reflection of the quality of the podcast itself, based on the effort, talent and passion exhibited by the hosts. Additionaly, the film analysis is genuinely interesting and sparks lively discussions between the hosts. I’m just thankful to all of the hosts for putting the show out there.


    Beautiful Jennifer Rubin was also the star of Bad Dreams, an NOES derivative movie that’s interesting because it also introduces a Jonestown/Evil cult leader element to the Nightmare formula. Not a great film but I find it interesting.

    Great discussion on NOES 2. As another commenter said, the film is better and more watchable once you understand the LGBT subtext.

  7. Man, I got such a kick out of all the sleep paralysis and dream talk at the beginning of this episode. The occurrence of common figures in totally unrelated cases of sleep paralysis is incredibly unsettling indeed. I feel like this sort of phenomena might lend credence to Jung’s theory of the collective unconscious and in truth I hope that such an explanation is ultimately proven the right one, as opposed to something far more sinister!

    With regards to ChrisRobo’s query about experiencing ones own demise while in a dream state; I can recall one instance of this actually happening to me and another where it was implied.

    The first was when I was very young (definitely no older than seven and maybe several years younger than that). It’s a dream that I still remember vividly to this day; it appears to have seared itself deeply into the fabric of my subconscious. I perceived the situation as though from an out-of-body experience and it involved myself being tied to a gurney by an incredibly generic looking vampire (the very kind you’ll see decorating all sorts of cheap halloween merchandise at this time of year) and then rolled, gurney and all, into a huge oven. The next thing I knew the generic vampire had opened the oven and wheeled the gurney back out and all that was left of me was my skeleton encased, quite nonsensically I might add, in a block of red ice. It sounds ridiculous and extremely silly now but at the time the dream disturbed me a great deal.

    The other dream, not quite as definite as the former, was much more recent and I believe recurred several times, with each recurrence expanding further towards it’s conclusion. It’s all a bit mixed up but it basically consisted of myself somehow sensing that someone had been murdered and that they were buried beside a path through a little sliver of muddy, autumnal parkland running between the backs of houses and garages. Each time I had the dream I got closer and closer to locating the grave-site until I had a sort of in-dream flashback which involved me being trapped in an old vaulted stone sewer by that same indefatigable assailant that I’m sure most people are familiar with from their own nightmares. At that point I started to come to the realisation that the body buried in that muddy lane was very likely my own. Then I woke up.

    • As you describe that latter nightmare, I imagine it taking place in the locations for The Canal.

      The former could be a great music video if you threw Freddy into it with Dokken or The Fat Boys.

      • It was very much a similarly over-cast, unpleasant, weed-strewn locale as The Canal. Not rural but with an eerie, drizzly loneliness about it. And it doesn’t really exist as far as I’m aware. Only in my strange dream-version of Scarborough. For some reason the locations of my dreams are always what stick out the most to me and I often revisit the same locations in dreams that are years apart despite them seemingly being nothing other than constructs of my imagination or at least pastiches of real places collaged together until they’re unrecognisable. Dreams are weird.

          • David, thanks for the reply. you noted that the dreams where you died stuck with you… my own have stuck with me very vividly as well (even from childhood). thanks for sharing. so you, too, had an “out-of-body” type experience in seeing your death in your dream (ie, like watching a movie or video game of yourself)

  8. Thoughts on the individual films:

    Freddy’s Revenge

    I’ve never cared much for this movie. Unlike Dream Master and Dream Child, it doesn’t even have the appeal of watching a Freddy film that seemingly matters. With Jesse not having any ties to Freddy’s death and the fact they never acknowledge of the events of this film in the subsequent films, I really don’t see there being much of a reason to watch this one. It doesn’t “Feel” right and it feels more like a cheap knock off version of a Nightmare film. Frankly, if you take away the not so subtle gay subtext and I doubt anyone would be talking about this movie all of these years later. Now, if I was going to praise the film, it would be for the opening nightmare with Jesse and the random two girls on the bus. This is actually one of my earliest memories of watching a horror movie back when I was a wee lad. There’s some legitimate horror to it because when you’re a kid, you put so much faith in your bus drivers despite not knowing a single thing about them. There’s even times when you have a sub driving the bus, so you’re literally just putting your safety into the hands of someone you’ve never met before. Bit of an interesting concept seeing as parents hit you over the head with the warnings of never accepting rides from strangers.

    While it’s not the worst Nightmare (That honor belongs to Freddy’s Dead), it’s one of my least favorite to watch.

    Dream Warriors

    My favorite Nightmare film to watch. This is the Freddy I think about when he’s brought up. The whole addition of having Freddy kill you by one of your own weaknesses or personal traits was brilliant. It allowed the series to get far more creative with the kills without worrying about getting too repetitive. As much as I loved Nancy, Kristen is my favorite final girl in the Nightmare series. The fact that they replaced Patricia Arquette in the next film was a major strike against Dream Master. Dokken’s Dream Warriors is my favorite song in any movie. I can put that song on a loop and just enjoy it for far too long of an amount of time. Without question, Dream Warriors is one of the best slasher sequels you can find. Talking about it again makes me want to give it yet another re-watch.

    Back when I came up with my top 10 list, I ranked Dream Warriors as being my third favorite horror ever.

    RIP to Dr. Shock. I wonder what was his specialized death that did him in by Freddy.

    As for my dream warrior power, it might be considered cheating, but I want to have Sylar’s powers from Heroes. Being able to absorb the dream warriors powers of anyone else in the particular dream. Just to keep it somewhat fair, I can only use powers from other people in the dream. Once the dream ends, I no longer have those powers the next time I fall asleep.

    • “RIP to Dr. Shock. I wonder what was his specialized death that did him in by Freddy.”

      He got turned into Jan-Gel and then cast himself into the sea.

    • That’s Peter’s power, actually… Sylar had to cut open the brains in order to understand how the power works and then he was able to “rewire” himself to use the power. Peter just absorbed powers- and in later seasons there were some modifications, but that was the core of their powers.

      • Shh…you’re going to give away my secret that I’ve only seen a handful of episodes of Heroes.

        Now that you clarified that, it does sound familiar. The idea of stealing other people’s dream warrior powers does sound fun. In this case, it’d be I’d need to steal people’s powers while in their dreams. I get to keep those powers the next time I go to sleep and those poor people will never have the dream warrior powers again. It’s a fun little dream warriors power if I want to be a total jerk in my dreams. Ha

    • Same here, I always tell people to watch part 1, skip to part 3. I don’t know what my dream warrior skill would be….probably to grow. I’m 5’7 and sure would like to be a little taller lol. My wife’s 5’9 and it can be a little embarrassing going to the store and saying “Lindsey, grab that off the top shelf for me” lol

    • I like your take on Dream Warriors, the movie and the song, Sal.

      I think people are too hard on Freddy’s Revenge. The dialog and performances aren’t nearly as bad as The Dream Master. I get your point, tough.

      SPOILER for our next show: I think The Dream Child was awful. I haven’t seen Freddy’s Dead all the way through before, but I’m really looking forward to it based on what they say about it in the Never Sleep Again doc.

      • This is going to sound really douchey and I apologize, but I wonder if you don’t mind Freddy’s Revenge solely because you’re not one of those FredHeads that have seen all of the movies a multitude of times over the years. For me, if I’m going to watch a Nightmare film, I want to see the Freddy we all know and love. Freddy’s Revenge doesn’t feel like a Nightmare film to me. If I only saw Freddy’s Revenge once in the last twenty years, I’d probably go easy on it too due to all of the hate the movie receives and because it feels different from the others.

        I think I’ve seen Dream Child enough times where I’m at peace with it. I’ve mellowed out on the main issues I have with it and am able to appreciate the things that it does do right. Visually, it’s a very unique film, particularly in the final act. It has a bit of an European feel or thinking you’re on acid or something. It’s not a Nightmare I will actively defend, but if I’m looking for a Freddy marathon, I go with the original, Dream Warriors, Dream Master and concluding with Dream Child, unless I want to watch the awesome New Nightmare too.

        • No, not douchey. I think you’re absolutely right. I just think that from a non-Fred Head’s more objective point of view, it’s a pretty interesting movie and the questionable others that get propped-up as better than it (Dream Master/Child) have just as many problems in their own right, whether they fit the franchise or not.

  9. Enjoyed this episode and also wound up re-watching “Dream Warriors” on Friday for my own 31 days of horror so it’s fresh in my head. Unlike the previous podcast, I do have to admit to a certain nostalgia with this film as it was in constant rotation on my VCR during the most formative years of my horror watching and gets filtered through the lens of an eleven year old boy discovering his own tastes in film- along with Evil Dead 2, Phantasm 2, Return of the Living Dead, Life Force, and the Friday the 13th series. But as a 40 year old adult, watching the film again was a slightly different experience.

    I still find Freddy to be an interesting character- a gleeful goblin taking great pleasure in the suffering of his victims. I find the setting to be horrifying and that may come from my own experiences (which seem similar to Mattroid’s in general if not specifics). I found the acting to be fairly solid and actually thought Taryn’s performance was the best when she was in her gowns (as opposed to her Bad Girl persona). Even the mythology felt a little more solid, though it felt a little like a nod to the Hammer/Amicus style of horror from the 60’s in building the monster. Where the movie lacked, in my opinion, was with the pacing- it felt a little rushed, it felt a little off, and I can’t help but wonder what the film might have been in a different set of hands.

    Kincaid is still an awesome character, though.

    With that said: I’ve also read the original Craven script, which goes much deeper and darker into Krueger’s motivations and his actual crimes. It’s bloodier, for certain- and there’s some truly sick imagery in the script. The opening scene really resonates with me and eventually found a home of sorts in the opening shots from “Martyrs”. I think you might want to familiarize yourselves with the script that could have been when you do your franchise overview.

    On a side note: I recently caught “It Follows” in my 31 Days of Horror- and I’m not sure if it was all the build up and hype or if I just caught the movie in a bad mood, but it didn’t really “pop” for me. I thought it was good, decently made, and well acted- but I felt the pacing was a little off. And I hated the soundtrack- it really sort of annoyed me. Utilizing your rating scare, I’d put it at a solid 7.5 and a strong rental.

    • Wow, I am really surprised by your thoughts on It Follows. Although I have heard some backlash about it before from a couple of our listeners, nobody has so clearly expressed dislike for elements I really enjoy like the pacing or the music.

      I’m sorry Dream Warriors didn’t totally hold up for you. That’s always disappointing to revisit something you loved in your youth and have it not quite work as an adult.

      Really curious to check out the Craven script.

      • In some places the pacing really worked- but in others, the pacing felt a little off. The scene where they are looking through the abandoned house felt really built up, but with no release- there was a brilliant shot where the lead actress looks across the street at the “other” house and we get this really distorted effect but it doesn’t really go anywhere- and likewise scenes other snippets in the house. Great build but then no release at all- and I’ve never really been a big fan of synth music in soundtracks.

        And, as I also said, I didn’t think it was a bad movie- just didn’t live up to a lot of the hype I expected from it. Especially since I watched it during my 31 Days of Horror challenge. And I’ve been watching some real stinkers on some nights.

  10. Can’t wait to listen! Stuck on this towboat waiting for our turn to make Lock 52 around Paducah Kentucky, (sigh) next wednsday finally be off of here. Very anxious to hear this one as Dream Warriors is one of my favorites of the franchise!!!

      • I’m on watch 6 hours and off watch 6 hours, it’s not a problem with Internet, although we’ve had a lot of delay this trip at Lock 52 in Metropolis, IL. The main problem is that I don’t have a lot of time. When you’re off watch, it’s a good idea to go to bed, and on watch is when it’s your turn to work. I usually am able ok listen to a full episode or two but with all the delay in areas with weak signal along with the fact that I forgot my headphones at home this trip, makes it hard to keep up. I go back home day after tomorrow though so I’ll be playin catch up this week for sure lol

  11. I think I’m the only openly homosexual listener/commentor and I’m always weary that I’ll offend JoTD because I respect and admire his choice to be devout and would never want to make him feel uncomfortable. That said!! I was a teenager in the 1980s and my family lived in a super-small town in central Oklahoma so I watched all horror movies on cable television. My whole family; mom, step dad, little bro and sisters, were watching Nightmare on Elm Street 2: Freddy’s Revenge and during the ambiguously gay bar scene, my little brother pointed at me and said loudly “That’s Scott!” So much uncomfortable energy during the rest of the movie! I’m pretty sure I’ve blocked out the rest of the evening and most of this movie because I was trying not to cry and my parents were trying not to acknowledge the big gay elephant in the room and my poor little brother was like “what? what? it’s true! everyone says it!”

    I laugh about it now but at the time, my 16 year old self was super embarrassed.

    • I’m glad you can laugh about it now, Scott. Tragedy plus time, I guess. Because that is sad and horrifying and hilarious all at once.

      I can’t speak for Jay, but I don’t think his religious beliefs would have any impact on his appreciation of you or your comments. And I agree with Chris.

      Your comment about our discussion of the homosexual subtext in Scream meant a lot to all of us and it is something we discussed (off air) as a standard we want to live up to.

      Also, I know you’re the only “out” commenter we have. SnowyOtter is out there somewhere nodding and I’m sure there are more.

      Anyway, everybody is welcome here.

        • Thanks for the awesome words, fellows!! I haven’t re-visited 2 yet, but it’s streaming right now so I plan and watching it again.

          A way more horror-related Freddy story is the night my whole extended family watched the first Nightmare on Elm Street on cable. A bunch of cousins and aunts and uncles came over, and there was pop corn and soda pop and pizza and jump scares and eeewws and blechs and we all had a real great time.

          We talked about what an amazing and scary film NOES is and how much we all loved it, then everyone went home, and we all went to bed. I woke up in the middle of the night and could hear a heart beat reverberate though my mattress! (at that time, I slept laying on my stomach without out a pillow. idk why. I just did.) Hearing a heart beat in my mattress FREAKED MY FREAK as you can imagine. That’s how Freddy came for you! Right up through the mattress or the wall or mirror or anywhere right after you wake up!! The heart beat was getting faster and faster and after about twenty terrifying minutes, I finally figured out I was hearing my own heart. Whew! Come to think of it, that might be why I sleep on my side now.

          • Scott, I love your NOES story. Was this the first time you saw the original? And, how old were you?

            Your story reminds me a lot of the first time I watched the original NOES. It was Halloween night, 1988. My extended family had gathered at my grandparent’s house, as we always did for the holidays. My parents, aunts and uncles were all hanging out on the main floor, while all the grandchildren were crammed in an upstairs bedroom (the one with the tv) decked out in our Halloween costumes. I was 7 y/o, the youngest of my generation in my extended family – I have one older sister and 24 cousins on that side, so there are 26 of us in total (although, not all of us were there that night). I had not seen a “real” horror movie to that point, at least, not that I can remember. Meanwhile, the next closest to me in age was my sister, who is about 4 years older, so they were all well-versed in the genre.

            That night would be my christening into the horror genre, with a triple-feature of JASON LIVES: FRIDAY THE 13TH PART VI, A NIGHTMARE ON ELM STREET and PHANTASM. Needless to say, I was hooked. And while JASON LIVES was certainly the most fun and entertaining of the trio and PHANTASM confused my 7 y/o mind, NIGHTMARE scared the bejesus out of me. I had nightmares of Freddy for several nights, and wouldn’t revisit the movie for awhile thereafter (too scared).

            And I agree with Chris – you don’t have to apologize for anything. You’re awesome.

  12. “Elm Street 3: The Dream Warriors” is one of the all-time best horror sequels. Loved the discussion on this one. One thing I don’t think you guys gave enough time for was that Phillip-marionette death scene. Wow! That was amazing, horrifying, excruciating to watch, and technically sound. You combine that with that beautiful stop-motion puppet of Freddy and you have yourself one of the unforgettable movie scenes!
    I also agree with JOTD about the deaths of Taryn and the Wizard Master. They were brutally sad and showed Freddy’s super cruelty. These dream warrior scenes were definitely under-used, but so, so effective. They really stuck with me as I saw this as a kid. This movie always made me sort of put myself in the place of the kids. Part 3 (and the next 2 sequels) really make us consider what weaknesses we have and how Freddy could delightfully torture us about them.

    As for part 2, yeah it’s completely bizarre. The gay sub-text thing is not what makes it quirky/odd/dumb. To me it just contains some completely ridiculous scenes that are more funny than scary. The bus, the guy trying to “talk down” Freddy at the pool scene, the weird baby-headed dog things in the finale, just to name a few. Yes, this one is so akin to Friday the 13th part 5 in terms of the random goofiness which makes it special.

    • I have to agree with you…I’m surprised nobody talked more about Phillip’s death. That was some serious special effects magic for the 80s. That’s actually the scene I remember most from the first time I saw this movie as a toddler (yes, a toddler. My dad loved scary movies just as much as me and let me watch them with him). That scene absolutely terrified me as a kid, of course, and that still remains the most poignant moment for me to this day when I recall those movies.

      Dream Warriors is definitely my favorite of the franchise, mostly because Nancy was a bit more street smart and Freddy retained his sick sense of humor without completely going clown.

      I don’t love Freddy’s Revenge, but I do enjoy it. I’ve watched it several times over the years and some scenes will always stick with me (like Freddy popping out of Jesse, literally. I love that!).

      • Phillip’s death also stuck with me (say this as a youngster as well). i think i can attribute that to my uneasiness with vein related gore/deaths in horror films actually

        • I’m the same way with veins, actually! Go figure. I even get weirded out when I see people with tattoos on their wrists. I never made that connection before.

          • the film “dream home” (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1407972/) has probably one of the cringiest gore scenes (not really a vein per se but an exacto knife near the jugular) if you want to make yourself squirm. i also remember being a kid and having issues with interview with a vampire because they’re always biting wrists/neck and highlighting the veins.

    • Grey Imp! What’s up my man? We totally blew it not bringing up the Phillip-marionette death scene. Like you said “Wow! That was amazing, horrifying, excruciating to watch, and technically sound. You combine that with that beautiful stop-motion puppet of Freddy and you have yourself one of the unforgettable movie scenes!” Only problem is … I did forget about it. So much to discuss in these and none of us are super-familiar with them. But I will make it up to you with our discussion on the Franchise Overview and I will read your comment on the show.

      • Sounds great – I knew you guys wouldn’t forget!…that scene is the one that always stuck with me all these years. In all horror films–all the deaths and gore–I still see that part as the most memorable, because it was so unique/cool/sickening!

  13. Is there any chance that you might include the Freddy Kruger origin story, ‘No More Mr. Nice Guy’ Ep 1 from Freddy’s Nightmares, directed by Tobe Hooper, for this Nightmare On Elm Street retrospective? I know Robert Englund thinks highly of that episode.

  14. My dream warrior power would be to have Freddy’s powers. Give him a taste of his own medicine! Pretty sure I could out quip him and as he was stunned by my amazing one liner zingers…I’d “Nena Cherry” his sorry burnt “Kylie Minogue”!!!

  15. If I was a dream warrior, I’d be an 80’s shred guitarist. I’d take out Freddy with some radical guitar solos. Wild Stallions!

  16. I **haven’t listened to this episode** yet because I still have to re-watch Part 3, but I wanted to drop a quick note on Part 2, FREDDY’S REVENGE. I watched it last night, and I gotta say that I didn’t think it was a horrible movie. I’ve only seen it once before and my memory of it was not very fond, so maybe my expectations were set very, very low. But, honestly, I didn’t think it was too bad and actually wonder why there’s so much backlash against it.

    The only reason I could think of is it’s not a normal NOES movie. Instead of stalking and killing teens in their sleep, he’s targeting a single person and, not hunting him, but attempting to ally with him so he can kill teens in the physical world. In that sense, one of the things that makes the film interesting – that it tries something different – is also its biggest downfall because of the resulting backlash from those wanting the regular NOES “formula.” It really can be seen as a precursor to FREDDY VS. JASON, though, since Freddy is looking for a surrogate to do his killing in the physical world.

    The movie certainly isn’t without faults – the overall execution of the film is nowhere near the original in quality, but I found it to be a fun and entertaining watch nonetheless. We still have a dark, menacing and somewhat mysterious Freddy, which I think works well. And the internal struggle that Jesse faces, where we’re never really sure if it’s a supernatural threat he’s battling or psychological or both, is an interesting idea even if it was never fully developed or explored (not well, at least).

    Overall, I think A NIGHTMARE ON ELM STREET 2: FREDDY’S REVENGE (1985) is a grossly underrated film that has endured some unfair hatred from Freddy fanboys over the years. I give the film 3 1/2 exploding birds (read: 7/10) and say it’s a strong rental on its own merits.

    **Sorry if my comments step all over what was said on the podcast. Like I mentioned up front, I still have yet to listen to the episode, but wanted to share some initial thoughts on FREDDY’S REVENGE following my re-watch.

    • Dino, I laughed out loud at the “exploding birds”. That was great.

      It really wasn’t too bad. I’m not a huge fan of the franchise overall, so I really wasn’t expecting much from it. I was just thrown off by the whole Freddy possessing this kid and wait, where’s the dream world? In my post it probably didn’t sound like I liked it very much, but it’s just not what I was expecting. It was still a good watch, in my opinion. I concur on the exploding birds. :)

      • Thanks. :)

        The exploding bird was such an odd scene, it would be remiss of us as a community to not shoehorn it into the discussion somehow.

        And your comment really hits on why I think this movie is so maligned in the horror community: simply put, it’s not what we expect when watching a NOES movie. Even though you’re not a die-hard fan of the franchise, it still subverts your expectations, which is a difficult thing for a movie to overcome.

        I’m totally jealous of you for the Stab t-shirt, btw. I think I might have to seek one out and buy it for myself.

      • Ha, well of course you agree because my comments were basically a retread of what you guys said on the podcast. That’ll teach me to comment before listening!

        Btw, I thought this was a really fun episode. Everyone really brought it with interesting points and discussion on the two films. And even if JOTD wasn’t necessarily as organized as he normally is, I quite enjoyed hearing punch drunk, slap happy JOTD.

  17. I’m a little late to the party this week…math finals are killer. Yeesh. Now that that unpleasantness is over I can focus on important stuff, namely the ANOES franchise review. I very much enjoyed the discussion of dreams because I have always been a very vivid dreamer. I am pursued by someone or something almost every night in my dreams. My dreams are so vivid that I remember many of them from my childhood. They usually aren’t ones you wake up from and want to go back to sleep and continue.

    So I didn’t really know what to think about ANOES Part 2. I didn’t care too much for Freddy possessing this kid rather than attack him in the dream world. I do really like the first movie, so I was a bit thrown off by this one. And maybe I’m naïve or it totally went over my head, but I didn’t know anything about the gay subtext of this movie until I heard this podcast episode. I guess I didn’t see it because I wasn’t looking for it.

    It’s difficult for me to try to watch a franchise I’m unfamiliar with. I am a huge Halloween fan and have been since I was 12, so it’s really hard for me to get into another franchise. I didn’t get into Friday the 13th until I was an adult. I have to agree with Jay on the nostalgia aspect of this franchise (don’t hurt me), but I think that could really go with any horror franchise you didn’t grow up loving. I’ve said this before, but I wonder what my love of horror would look like today if I had watched Freddy first, or Jason. I wonder if I would watch Halloween as an adult and just think…meh. I still haven’t had time to watch Dream Warriors yet, so maybe this weekend I can knock that one out.

    And last, after a hard, agonizing week of preparing for and taking my math final, I come home tonight after a long day and find a flipping Stab t-shirt waiting for me. THAT’s what’s up! Jay of the Dead, you da bomb! #deadseriousaboutmystabtshirt

    • Allison, are you ever “killed” in your dreams? that must be pretty unsettling to be stalked every single night in your dreams… RE: ANOES 2 subtext, i think once you’re made aware of it, you can’t unsee it.

      • Chris, I have only been “killed” once in my dream, and not completely, if that makes any sense. It wasn’t an out of body experience and I woke up as it was happening. I have mostly home invasion dreams, and this one resulted in me being shot (WTF, right?) and just as the bullet hit my chest I woke up. I sat up like a shot and my chest still hurt where the bullet hit me in the dream. It was the most realistic experience.

        Oh you’re right about the subtext…I know if I revisit this film that is all I will see!

    • *Ehem, I think you mean “Wolfman Josh, you’re the bomb.” Just sayin’ … normally, I don’t care to take credit for things like that but I’ll be damned if Jay is going to take away my credit. Hahaha

      Hopefully it’s not your Halloween fandom that has resulted in you being perpetually stalked.

      • Hahahahaha, I will give credit where credit is due. Were you the one handling this? I gave Jay a shoutout because he emailed me. I have nothing but lovefor you, Wolfman. ??

        My dreams were weird long before my obsession with horror began…I know I had one of those crazy dreams and couldn’t have been more than five or six (the green shag carpet in my bedroom at the time is very helpful for time reference). My mother says it’s because she saw “Alien” while she was pregnant with me, so I place the blame squarely on her. ?

        • Yes, Jay was emailing you at my behest because he controls the HMP gmail account. Really, it doesn’t matter. Just glad you like the shirt!

          I hope pregnancy works like that because that would be AMAZING!

          And we had green shag carpet too. Plus, an orange couch. Like, a new one. On purpose.

  18. If I was a dream warrior, I would have the ability to orb out of dangerous situations. Freddy’s coming at us, I orb us out of there. Boom.

  19. Another great episode. I was happy to be a part of it with Station.

    And I’ve loved the comment so far; lots of cool stuff.

    I can’t describe my dreams. They are more often than not so horrifying and upsetting that I try to leave them alone. Eek.

    That said, my dream warrior power would be to heal Freddy’s physical wounds and emotional ones too. After that he’s use his dream powers for good.

  20. Good episode guys. I had a few episodes of sleep paralysis as a teenager, with the content reminiscent of an alien abduction. I was on a table surrounded by gray figures. Fortunately, no probing.

    My dream warrior power would be to stop time. I had a very vivid dream many years ago (way before Heroes, so Hiro was ripping me off instead of the other way around) in which I was attacked by three guys. But I could “pause” time, move around, look carefully at everything, take my time deciding what to do, and then restart the action. They never had a chance.

  21. Just a few quick notes on this show…

    – Overall, I thought this was a great episode. Everyone brought some really interesting points and discussion to the table, and slap happy JOTD was fun. Honestly, this was a highly enjoyable listen.

    – Re: the psychosexual subtext in FREDDY’S REVENGE, the movie really hits us over the head with it, but never properly connects it to the story. Since Freddy appeared in Jesse’s dreams before he knew what happened at that house and before Lisa found Nancy’s diary, it removes the possibility that Freddy was just a metaphor for Jesse’s internal struggle. In essence, it wasted what could have been a very interesting and meaningful story element.

    – The discussion of DREAM WARRIORS was also excellent. Even though I only have faint memory of this one from when I was younger, a lot of the imagery really stuck in my mind – the marionette kill, the Freddy snake, and the mirror scene towards the end, to name a few. That’s a recurring theme I’m finding with these NOES films; they contain so much striking and iconic imagery.

    Station! made such a great point about the true horror in DREAM WARRIORS being that the adults and caretakers don’t believe the children or that there’s actually something wrong. That really speaks to reality, which is even more frightening.

  22. My dream warrior power would be the ability to create and control fire at will, sort of like the Human Torch, for two reasons:

    1) Isn’t Freddy afraid of fire? So, takes care of that.
    2) And it would also take care of the whole being able to fly thing, which I think is the ultimate dream power.

    • Freddy’s fear of fire along with Jason’s phobia of water only occurred in Freddy Vs. Jason. It’s the sort of things that made that movie really disappointing for me.

        • You can’t kill what’s already dead~!

          Really, Freddy’s ultimate fear should be the child he’s been stalking is actually over 18 and it’s no longer fun for Freddy.

          To be more serious, if Freddy had one true fear, it’s people forgetting about him. Not just for the sake of losing his powers and not being able to kill others, but Freddy comes across as someone with an ego. So for people to forget about the things he’s done would be pretty devastating for everyone’s favorite child murderer (Seriously, do the math, Freddy is the most popular child murderer in the history of the planet!).

          • Sal- that was one of the biggest reasons I enjoyed the ultimate guilty pleasure: Freddy vs Jason! I liked the fact that Freddy was so concerned with people forgetting about him that he used Jason to make them remember- I thought it was an interesting touch and made sense in the Freddy world… just not the Jason world… However, it was one I wish they would have pursued more in the franchise with more clarity. That and the “Elm Street children” angle too. I like the whole “the sins of the parents will be visited on the children”; its more coherent than flaming dog urine anyway… Plus it worked in the tragic family component into the story line which all the great franchises have- Michael and his sister/cousin, Jason and his mother, Freddy and his bloodlust for the children of the parents that killed him- that element alone is so scary and personal to Freddy’s motives.

            One thing is for sure, after listening to the latest (and greatest) episode in the franchise review- I, too, have a phobia like Jason Voorhees and Freddy Kruger: Jay’s photogenic B-hole.

  23. Part 2 is great & totally overrated. I love it. It’s scary & freddy looks great. People don’t like it for the gay elements but that has more to do with the persons bigotry than the movie. Part 3 is great as well but i might like 2 more but I’ll have to rewatch them again to be sure

    • I’m not sure that the backlash against this movie really has anything to do with the psychosexual sub-text. I think it probably has more to do with the fact that this entry does not follow the conventional NOES structure of Freddy stalking teens in their nightmares.

      If anything, I think the sub-text actually gives this movie extra points among the horror crowd.

      • You know, before just now, it had never occurred to me that I’ve never heard of any homophobic reviews of Freddy’s Revenge. Sure, there’s negative reviews for the movie because the movie isn’t good or people commenting on how out of place the gay subtext feels, but never flat out hatred because it dared to go there.

  24. JOTD (or, probably, Wolfman Josh) – Just a heads up that this episode page isn’t showing up when you click on the NIGHTMARE button in the sidebar under franchise reviews.

  25. I’ve been on vacation this week and doing a lot of house cleaning. Today that involved consolidating and cleaning up some boxes of ephemera in the DVD room. In one of them I ran across a whole stack of wallet size pocket calendars from Media Home Video promoting Nightmare on Elm Street 3 The Dream Warriors. Not sure why I had them, and there are easily 50 or so of them, but there they were. Ran into a stack of promo stickers from Prince of Darkness as well.

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